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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 969 Likes: 38
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 969 Likes: 38 |
Guns and hunting aside, these people must be stopped. They are antiscience, antitruth quasi religious fanatics that hark back to the Middle Ages. Their disregard for the truth and cynical conviction that the end justifies the means are dangerous generally.
Read Arnold's book "Undue Influence" to get a handle on how the "movement" works, and where it wants to take society.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,464 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,464 Likes: 212 |
I've seen it brought up elsewhere, but it seems nontoxic rifle bullets fit the description of armor piercing. A quick look at the atf site says that frangible target bullets are exempt, but sporting bullet use is at the discretion of the att. gen. It doesn't mention anything about scientific studies, the environment or health.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34 |
it seems nontoxic rifle bullets fit the description of armor piercing. Some can, but they are not much good for hunting. We generally use copper bullets. Work OK, but not as well as lead. Stuff is expensive, so practice is concentrated just before a hunt, rather than year around. Can use other lead ammo for practice, but why bother if trajectory is different than the hunting load. Big PITA, and I have not seen a box of .308 Barnes in two years, so have to hunt with a .270 because I have "legal" ammo for that gun.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34 |
This is disturbing: Of additional concern is that the Condor Recovery Program is currently overlooking the toxicity of copper, as noted in the Necropsy for Condor # 271, RP 9548. The death of Condor # 271 is not the only one related to copper, allegedly from ammunition or possibly from such microtrash as pennies and wire connectors.
This is important because it is copper ammunition that is being presented by the Program as the “safe” substitute for lead ammunition.
Hunting and shooting stakeholders have taken note that the Condor Recovery Program knew at least in October of 2002 that copper is toxic to condors. Additional stakeholder data, including emails where Peregrine Fund employees were discussing copper varmint bullet toxicity with a well-known manufacturer, has already been presented in the public record.
But what is also in that record is that studies on copper bullet toxicity are waiting only on a mandatory lead ban to become the next agenda item. Otherwise, there might be nothing to defend the program with when future condors are found dead with elevated levels of copper in their systems. A total ammunition ban is thus waiting in the wings as the next phase of the debate.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622 |
This is disturbing: Of additional concern is that the Condor Recovery Program is currently overlooking the toxicity of copper, as noted in the Necropsy for Condor # 271, RP 9548. The death of Condor # 271 is not the only one related to copper, allegedly from ammunition or possibly from such microtrash as pennies and wire connectors.
This is important because it is copper ammunition that is being presented by the Program as the “safe” substitute for lead ammunition.
Hunting and shooting stakeholders have taken note that the Condor Recovery Program knew at least in October of 2002 that copper is toxic to condors. Additional stakeholder data, including emails where Peregrine Fund employees were discussing copper varmint bullet toxicity with a well-known manufacturer, has already been presented in the public record.
But what is also in that record is that studies on copper bullet toxicity are waiting only on a mandatory lead ban to become the next agenda item. Otherwise, there might be nothing to defend the program with when future condors are found dead with elevated levels of copper in their systems. A total ammunition ban is thus waiting in the wings as the next phase of the debate.
Well we are in deep s__t here in CA. I am in awe of the number of new proposed firearms, hunting and ammo restrictions and the ease in which they moved through the legislature. We can only hope our Governor deems some of them too costly ($) to sign.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 29
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 29 |
Are there any restrictions on shipping non-tox ammo person to person from an outside state to a resident of CA?
Thanks
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34 |
Are there any restrictions on shipping non-tox ammo person to person from an outside state to a resident of CA?
Thanks No restrictions on shipping any lead or non-tox hunting ammo into CA. There may be some military or armor-piercing loads that are restricted, but I suspect those restrictions are federal. None of the BS state ammo regulations have yet been signed into law, except for the condor zone stuff. The gov is signing stuff every day, but this topic has been quiet. Let's hope it stays that way.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622 |
The ammo restriction pertains to hunting only and wouldn't be in effect till 2019.
Replacement as you probably know the Governor needs to veto these firearms/ammo bills. He can put his name on the ones he is in agreement with but if he simply does nothing they become law.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34 |
if he simply does nothing they become law I was more than a bit bothered yesterday by some of the gov's comments at the signing ceremony for the 25% bump in the CA minimum wage ($8 to $10 over a couple of years). There was no business or economic logic in his statements, and his decision sounded like it evolved out of a combination of religious zealotry and his continuing quest for what some would call "social justice." I know he spent time in a seminary, but this is ridiculous. We can only hope that he applies more logic to the gun and ammo legislation that is sitting on his desk. I like Jerry, but I think he's nuts.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622 |
Some of his constituent unions have come out against the ammo ban. One thing for sure Jerry is unpredictable. He has a couple of more weeks to place a veto on these bills before they automatically become law.
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