doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Source for Rings for Claw Mounts

BTW, I had envisioned the scribe mark to be at the rear of the hook facing the slide, not down the side of the hook, as per your drawing...good luck!!

Yikes, I sounded like a curmudgeon a bit ago...replace "WILL NOT GET TIGHTER" to "will be as tight as it gets" and if the slider just got started over it, perhaps tight enough...not here to poo poo anyones' ideas, as I am a rank hobbyist...Steve

Well I went out to my workshop today after work and started filing and smoking the single claw (foot) on my rear ring. This time I did not worry about having the foot bearing on the barrels and just focused on having the flat area on the bottom of the ring bearing on the top of the base plate.

But then I started wondering about something I was doing. I have been using a steel bar 1" in diameter and approx. the length of the scope and attached my rings to this bar. This bar actually is used to lap 1" scope rings. I did this simply to avoid risking damage to the scope that I am going to use while I am doing the fitting of the rings to the bases. So, now I am wondering at what point should I attach the actual scope to the rings. Seems like I should do this before the very final fitting of the rear foot. Possibly the scope might fit slightly different than the steel bar....I don't see why it should but if it did this might affect the fit. And once I mount the rings to the actual scope and finish the fitting to the base plate is there any problem or issues with removing the rings to touch up the rings, final polish and blue them or even engrave them (not this time but just in theory on the engraving). Will removing the rings from the scope and later reinstalling the rings affect or change the fit? Again, doesn't seem like it would but wondering what others think.

Thanks,
Ron

Put the scope in and check. When the rear ring, without fitting the slider is down on the base, check the scope collimation. When it is right, that is you have adjusted the height by removing the right amount of the flat area that contacts the base, STOP and fit the groove/slider. This also means that if you have to lower the rear ring height, you will probably also have to reshape the bottom of the claw to just clear the bottom of the slot, since you have in effect lowered it, too. After you fit the slider IT IS TOO LATE TO ADJUST HEIGHT ANY MORE, as you would then move/ drop the groove BELOW the slider, loosening it, and you get to start over! After the slider is fitted, you can only polish other surfaces, so if you want the slider groove/slider polished, then let polishing (say with 400 sandpaper on a tiny file) accomplish the last removal of metal in the fitting process. Polishing the rest, blueing, and removal of the ring tops should have no detrimental effect IMHO, but I wouldn't get carried away on the sides of the claws, for sure. If at the end of the day you have to slightly adjust elevation, front or back, then light shimming of the rings, or milling of the rings might accomplish it. Probably your scope adjustment range will do it, but a centered scope is the goal...Steve

Ron,
A new front base is "skim"milled on top, but especially in the dovetail cut for the plate. At this point the plate will not fit into the dovetail, so isn't installed.Since the plate comes already fit to the ring, the reason for milling the dovetail is to level the whole assy. and insure it is parallel to the water table.
In boresighting,the chord is only to hold everything together, so you can determine the height of the rear ring.The rifle is not fired, and the scope is not adjusted.The boresighting is done by adjusting the height of the adjustable block under the scope.Since the reticle is centered before boresighting to find the correct height of the ring,maximum adjustment will be avaliable to sight it in, when the job is completed.
There are a couple reasons not to have the feet(in your case foot)bear hard on the barrel.Certainly, dirt/trash is a real concern;but also bearing on the barrel puts pressure on the solder joint between the rear base and barrel.When the rifle is fired in this condition,it "shocks" the solder joint.I have seen a rear base come loose because of this(I understand yours is screwed on).Also, if the feet bear on the barrel,it affects the fitting of the slider to the slot.The reason to have the feet close is for strength.
You are lucky to havs a Tig welder.
Mike

Steve,
Fitting the slider to the feet, the way I learned,takes the "slack" out by the bottom of the slider bearing on the bottom of the slot in the feet(which is a little proud)while this forces the slider up to bear on the bottom of the slot in the base.This takes out the tolerances necessary in manufacture,and it is easier to fit, since you are not filing blind in a slot.The slot in the feet being proud of the slot in the base is what forcrs the ring down.In fitting the slider,tapping it into the slot with a drift and small hammer,and fileing where the drag marks show interference,takes out the slack.Milling the slot in the feet, results in a slot parallel to the top of the base, and the slider needs to be parallel, to insure maximum contact and not wedge in so tight it is hard to remove the scope.The top of the base has been "skim"milled to make it level and parallel to the water table.The area that sits on the top of the base(which has been leveled)has been milled parallel, while milling to adjust the height, and usually "spotted in" to insure even bearing (one of the reasons the feet should be clear of the barrel).This "milling"can be done by fileing, but the fitting will take a lot of time and will be highly dependent on the skill of the workman.Mounts can, and do, sometimes get loose after 50 or 60 years of use;but it is much easier to correct this by replacing/refitting the slider.If the slot in the feet is not proud of the slot in the base, you can't refit it with just a new slider.
Mike

Hey, Mike--you are totally right about the future refitting--it would be vastly easier and better to just install another slide, which cannot be done if the feet are lowered. Thanks for the patient tutorial! Sometimes we have to talk it through, thinking out loud in order to really understand. And taking up the slack at the top of the slider groove is key, although it occurred my way as well. I am really enthused to learn these techniques. Thanks, again...Steve

Mike: Is there any way, short of owning some hydraulic setup, to force the base onto the hooks in the manner you described, even if the front base could be removed? It must have required great force if you had to scrape away a burr of metal from their joining. Steve

Steve,
I think so, I mentioned earlier that I thought taking the plate out of it's dovetail and drive it onto the hooks(ring locked upside down in a vise)with a drift and small hammer.This won't work if there is no plate(the solid ones I've seen were intended for the barrel of a bolt gun, ahead of the action. A small "truckload tool sale" hydraulic press(6 ton size)is not very expensive, and useful for a lot of things. A press like this is just an "H" frame with a smsll bottle jack supplying the power.You figured out, all by your self, how to make workable claw mounts, there is no doubt you could make one.
Mike

Mike, one more question: I presume since we are talking about a press fit, that the hooks are shaped to what we want them to be BUT A LITTLE PROUD? That is, shaped to the angle at the top of the hook and the curve at the bottom, with just enough extra to achieve a bit of "metal smear." The bases and hooks both making way under pressure, but fitted almost as peened together? Just trying to understand...STeve