doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The new ways vs the old

Hi Elaine, nice to meet you too.

Your process is interesting. As I said earlier, I am very conservative when it comes firearms. I do not see hot blue to be an improvement over rust blue. Nice your able to use either process, but good guns get rust blued in my eyes. Hot blue is now more durable than rust blue? I will respectfully disagree with you on that point. The really heavy loads of steel shot also have a place, but I'm an upland shooter and 1&1/8 oz of lead is more my preferred load. I read through your barrel innovation page several times. I'm still not convinced it is in any way an improvement over the traditional methods. Less recoil due to straighter barrels? Recoil is simply a factor of the shot payload, velocity and the weight of the gun. Interesting marketing tactic, but the engineering principles behind recoil have not changed with your new process. I don't want to come off as too critical, every gun shown on your web site looks well made, but I am skeptical that this design is better in any fashion. Best of luck with your venture, they really do look to very nicely made.
Steve

No doubt the solid-solid barrels are strong.

With so much technology floating around I was expecting to see steps towards another direction, that taken by the amateur double rifle builders over at Nitroexpress.com and have barrels that screw into a monobloc. Pieper tried that too if I remember right. Admittedly the Baby Bretton has them, but that is one ugly gun.

Why barrels that screw in? Because then they can be changed individually if and when necessary. Combine those with the replaceable lump shoes of a Parker and a bushing on the cross pin as in the Model 21 and the gun becomes infinitely repairable, a worthwhile consideration for objects that last 100 years or more.

Welcome to the BBS, Elaine. I do hope you'll visit frequently and contribute your thoughts and opinions whenever. On this board your fellow contributors are amongst the most enthusiastic supporters of double guns. And the depth of knowledge is incredible. Again, WELCOME! Regardless of the method of barrel construction your guns seem to have the heart and soul this topic is discussing. Congratulations.

Welcome, Elaine. I have admired the L.H. guns since you introduced them, though I have never handled one.

The locks are beautiful, and the wood staining and finishing as well. Very nice guns.

All the best, SRH

Thank you so much Gentlemen for your lovely welcome to your forum, I respect all your opinions and I hope that in the not too distant future we will have some guns over there for you to try.

In the meantime very happy shoot

Best wishes
Elaine
Longthorne Gunmakers

The article OP linked to poses the problem very nicely. And this thread picks up on most of the issues. Not being a theologian I can't really talk to the soul of an object, hand made or otherwise. And, though I'm accused of being a romantic occasionally, my romantic tendencies incline toward women and ideas more than guns and dogs.

So, personally my taste runs towards custom made rather than hand made, and CNC tooling for the innards and hand checkering/engraving on the outside. That's just me and your mileage may vary.

As for why we haven't seen any cost reduction from the adoption of CNC production, I suspect two factors are in play--a return on the brand equity that owners of makers such as Purdy's and H&H expect (European luxury goods conglomerates in both cases) and the small production volumes over which tooling costs must be amortized.

Before the Spanish started having their problems, the perception that a 'Spanish best' was 90% of a London gun at 10% of the price was common. Most of that was brand premium. But--people wear bespoke suits and walk on hand knotted rugs and shoot London bests for all kinds of reasons, and clothing their nakedness, keeping the mud off their boots and putting a bird in the pot have very little to do with it.

The one piece double gun barrel is not a new thing, far from it.
Jean Breuil was a specialist almost 100 years ago...and sans CNC...Now, that's real skill.
If you ever see a French gun with "MONOBLOC" on it, it does not mean sleeved (that would be "canons frettes"), it means that it was built from a single block of steel.
Not common but out there none the less.
And yes there is a bit of weight improvement, albeit not gigantic.
Best regards,
WC-

It is duly noted that the Italian maker Berretta has used the term Monobloc for years. In this case the term means exactly what it says the rear "Bloc" is made of one piece (Mono) of steel with the individual tubes being inserted (From the Front) into the Bloc.
The Belgian Henri Pieper originated the method but did not use the term Monobloc. In his original design the tubes were inserted from the rear of the Bloc, so you see a step where they emerge from the "Bloc". Later he did make barrels with the tubes inserted from the front without the step also. Many Darne (French) barrels were built on this Monobloc principal & they too used a tubed Bloc, not one piece bbls.

Yes. A lot well said here, in relatively few words.

Jay

Cannons Frettes as described by a French gunsmith is where the monobloc is heat shrunk onto the barrel tubes. It is a process borrowed from artillery pieces and probably a bit of overengineering for shotguns.

It may also be used for sleeving, but I have not yet come across that usage.