doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who owns this gun ?

Gun is legally shipped from seller ffl to second ffl in another state for delivery to a private person who has paid seller for the gun to include insurance. Who owns the gun after it is signed out from seller's record book and before gun is logged in receiving ffl's record book ? As when it is in custody of ups, fedex, post office.

Furher question, let us say the gun is damaged or lost before logged in by the receiving ffl. Who files for insurance and who reports the stolen gun to the BATF ?

The sender pays for the insurance, so the sender has to file--and has to report the stolen gun, because it has never entered the custody of the individual on the receiving end.

I'd say ownership transfers when payment and receipt change hands. Whatever then happens to it is at the risk of the owner, unless other agreements are in place. Ownership of a gun and being in possession of it are different. Responsibility for it is with whoever legally holds it until transferred formally into the hands of another (in this case FFL).

As I recall Uniform Commercial Code The title ( ownership) transfers when Invoice is cut. If paid in advance then buyer actually owns the goods.
Shipper If requested takes out insurance and therefore claims the loss. Buyer has claim against shipper for non-delivery. ie should get money back.
Report of loss theft should be shipper and owner.Shipper has obligation to file due to ATF record keeping requirements.
If however shipment was within state not Interstate then local state law would have precedence.

Is there/was there an inspection period?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

The elements of a contract are "offer" and "acceptance" by "competent persons" having legal capacity who exchange "consideration" to create "mutuality of obligation."[1]

Was the consideration exchanged?

Mike

As an insurance adjuster my first question would be who sustained the loss. If the seller has been paid in full the seller no longer has an insurable interest in the goods and has suffered no loss - he got his money. If the buyer paid for the gun in full prior to shipping he has sustained the loss and his insurance or the insurance purchased from the shipper would apply pursuant to the terms of the policy.

Are the FFL's sending the gun between each other or are they handling the transaction for two individuals? (example: Person A, a Michigan resident, selling to Person B, an Indiana Resident. Person A goes to a local FFL who ships to a FFL in Indiana) Note: the USS does not apply to sales of goods between individuals so the answer to the question above depends on the legal status of the buyer and the seller.

Old Joe--

are you a law school professor in another life? That question is a lovely set up that would give the little buggers (your students) a chance to show off.

But since you've called the first FFL the 'seller' and the second one the 'buyer', the answer to what you've asked is a question of federal law and I assume BATF has a regulation covering disappearance in transit. OTOH, everybody else has a piece of the answer under the applicable UCC, the insurance coverage issue and so on. Of course, under the UCC the parties can negotiate terms (FOB, COD, L/C, you pick), but in a private party transaction that doesn't happen.

Laissez les bon temps roulez.

I am sorry, i mis stated the question in my first post. it should have read that a seller ffl legally ships gun to ffl in another state for delivery to a private party who has sent payment in full to seller to include insurance. of course the private person would not take possession of the gun until federal form 4473 is completed at receiving ffl premises and background check approved. I will edit my first post. I am not a professor and am just one who buys guns as decribed.

The same questions apply. who owns the gun after it is signed out from seller's record book and before gun is logged in receiving ffl's record book ? As when it is in custody of ups, fedex, post office.

Furher question, let us say the gun is damaged or lost before logged in by the receiving ffl. who files for insurance and who reports the stolen gun to the BATF ?