doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 14 bore 12ga

I have seen a couple of Enlish guns lately with 14 stamped on the barrel...With a 12ga bore size being .729 thous. The .693 14 bore seems awful tight was this a common practice. Are they safe to shoot with low pressure loads. The minimum wall thickness on the one set of barrels I checked was 44 and 40...

Thanks

Big Country,
We need to see the proof marks on the guns in question.
It could be that the guns you saw were made between 1875 & 1887.During this time frame, "choke" was denoted as follows: 12B 14 M accompanied by the words," not for ball." Guns with these and other accompanying proof marks are safe to shoot with the appropriate cartridges, provided that the guns measure in proof and are sound condition,

Thanks Drew for posting the picture for me. This is the set of barrels I was asking about shooting with low pressure shells. I actually have a friend with a English gun that has a 14 stamped on both barrels. I have not had the opportunity to measure wall thickness or bore size on the other set of barrels.

We very often find 12ga German guns with 13 bore barrels.Fairly seldom, 16ga with 15 bore barrels.
Mike

British proof rules do not allow for proof testing
a 12G gun with 14 G barrels!
My concern is that you likely have a 14 G gun that some one has re: chambered to take 12G shells. I would not shoot this gun.

Second to Roy Hebbes's concerns. Read about such things being done, and the burst chamber is the ultimate end. Precise wall thickness measurement required at least.

I have an old double hammer gun marked W Richards. It carries pre 1887 Birmingham proof marks. It is stamped 14 on both bbls. Idoes not have the B & M marks nor does it carry the Not For Ball marking. It also has a 12ga chamber. I do not know what current British rules are but At the time this gun was proofed there was no prohibition to proofing it as marked & chambered. The bore was simply marked as to the largest Gage which would enter the bore a distance of 9", The proof charge selected according to gauge of the bore & put into whatever shell the gun was chambered for in the definitive proof. The provisional proof was done prior to the bbl being chambered. Remember also that prior to 1887 there were no in-between sizes. A bbl stamped 14 simply means it would accept the .693 gage, but not a .710" one. It could in fact have measured .7095" & still have been stamped as a 14.
This gun which I have is in such poor condition I consider it only as a wall hanger, but prior to me getting it the previous owner kept it "Loaded" with 2 3/4" "High Brass" 4's. That's a
3 3/4DE- 1�Oz load such as a Super X, Express, HiPower etc.
It does have twist bbls & 2 5/8" chambers.

It wasn't an uncommon practice. The 12 bore gun with 14 bore barrels should be safe with any 12 bore ammunition it was proofed for if still in proof. The photograph shows that the gun is proofed for black powder ammunition. I have seen them marked 15 bore in the barrels; and what about the Vena Contracta gun with 12 bore chambers and 20 bore tubes? No, that is not a gun rechambered to 12, it is a 12 bore with 14 bore barrels. With those wall thicknesses I could see no reason whay it should not stand re-proof for nitro if submitted. If you see the mark 14m on a set of 12 bore barrels that indicates choke i.e. 14 bore muzzle. Lagopus.....

Nice 14 Gauge on egun:

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4349941

Kind Regards,
Gunwolf