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Joined: Oct 2003
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2003
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I have the above gun with ammunition 22 stamped on the barrel. The proof marks are22 L which I presume means its chambered for the 22 long. A 22LR round will chamber but there is a little resistance . I gather the only difference between the two rounds are projectile weight,would it not be possible/advisable to run a 22LR reamer into the chamber to use regular 22LR ammo? Would the rate of twist be different between the two? As an aside it has engraved on the receiver made expressly for A Hajee Dossul and sons Karachi Anyone shed any light on who these guys were?
Cheers,
GDU
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Joined: May 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Hello Greg, There is a considerable difference between the twist rates of .22 Short and Long cartridges and that of the .22LR. Many a person has rechambered one of these old rifles and found to their regret that they are hopelessly innaccurate. It's better to re-barrel to .22LR if you with to use this round. .22 LR has a twist rate of 1 turn in 16". I don't have figures for the .22Long to hand but I do know they differ quite a lot. If the bore is 'shot out' then it could be relined to .22 LR, a more economical proposition.
As for A.Hajee Dossul and Sons, Karachi, they were almost certainly an emporium catering to the British colonial civil servants and military officers, providing all the comforts of home, (at a price of course). If you Google the company name you will find several references to it. It seems to be still extant. A few shillings for engraving is cheap advertising and it's still done today. There's nothing like a bit of advertising when your in business.
Harry.
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 674 Likes: 13 |
I would determine its rate of twist, or even simply test fire it, before making plans to re-chamber or re-line. Is a LR bullet fully engraved by the rifling upon examination after extracting it unfired from the chamber?
I had a Low Wall Winder Musket originally in .22 short that in their infinite wisdom R.F.Sedgley altered to .22WCF, retaining the original sloooow twist bore. Talk about a gun that was doomed not to shoot.
Happy birthday, Harry!
Last edited by Gary D.; 02/28/13 10:28 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2008
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The chambers of .22 rimfire rifles made in the early days, until at least 1920, were not really "chambers" as we think of them. They were just an unrifled part of the barrel and may have even had a slight taper. I have 3 Winders and a #3 Ballard in .22 Short, one Winder since lined to Long Rifle. All would readily accept ordinary .22 Long Rifle cartridges. The LR cartridges could be fired safely, but at 50 yards accuracy was a sometimes thing. They would hit somewhere in the tiny targets at gallery ranges (50 or 75 feet). It is not necessary to "rechamber" those old rifles and doing so will only harm them.
With the onset of prone and position match shooting circa 1900, tighter chambers were designed. Today there must be a hundred or more individual chamber designs. The various chambers designed for target rifles were made small and it takes some degree of effort to chamber a Long Rifle cartridge in some of them.
GDU's Martini could be one intended for the 22 Long cartridge, or it could be one with a tight target chamber intended for the Long Rifle. In any event, the easiest way to find out is to try it with some sort of standard velocity, lead bullet Long Rifle ammunition shot from rest at a paper target at 50 or 100 yards/meters.
If it proves to be inaccurate with LRs, try it with .22 Longs. I have had reasonable results at gallery targets with some ".22 CB Long Match" cartridges made in OZ and marketed in the US under the Winchester brand. Those have 29-grain bullets intended for Shorts loaded into Long cases. I suspect that the powder charge is that for the Short. I do not think they are just propelled by the primer.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 621
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 621 |
Hello Greg, There is a considerable difference between the twist rates of .22 Short and Long cartridges and that of the .22LR. Many a person has rechambered one of these old rifles and found to their regret that they are hopelessly innaccurate. It's better to re-barrel to .22LR if you with to use this round. .22 LR has a twist rate of 1 turn in 16". I don't have figures for the .22Long to hand but I do know they differ quite a lot. If the bore is 'shot out' then it could be relined to .22 LR, a more economical proposition.
As for A.Hajee Dossul and Sons, Karachi, they were almost certainly an emporium catering to the British colonial civil servants and military officers, providing all the comforts of home, (at a price of course). If you Google the company name you will find several references to it. It seems to be still extant. A few shillings for engraving is cheap advertising and it's still done today. There's nothing like a bit of advertising when your in business.
Harry. Harry.... HAPPY BIRTHDAY OL' CHAP FROM ANOTHER OL' CHAP. P.S. I used to live in Shropshire years ago, when I was a "YOUNG CHAP" Best Wishes and Cheers Jerry
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1 |
Jerry, Thank you kindly for your good wishes, I'm a Northumbrian born and bred with an ancestry going back to the 7th Century, when my ancestors were illegal immigrants from what as then Saxony. Technically I'm a descendant of illegal immigrants. lol.
Harry
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1 |
Gary 'D',
Thankee for your best wishes, I'd like to think I'm only a young fellow but the body and the brain is letting me down somewhat. lol.
Harry
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 448 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
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I have a Model 90 Winchester in 22 Long. It shoots LR ammo very well.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 638 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 638 Likes: 2 |
Thanks for your reply's. I will check the twist and test fire it as well. It does engrave the rifling when chambered,is this going to cause pressure issues? If it does not shoot well with LR rounds I will see if I can get some longs for it. There are 22LR rounds which shoot lighrt ptojectiles as well . I have attached a couple of photos,its in well used but sound order and the bore is excellent. It still retains its original tangent rear sight and flipover post/bead front sight.
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