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Joined: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted By: old colonel
Why do you say 308, 30-06,243 are a mistake, is that they are often higher pressure than what a double rifle type action can take?



Pressure is always something to keep a eye on with break open guns as they are not as strong as bolt rifles. Some doubles will hold it and some will come off face quickly.
But regardless of pressure you really want a rimmed/flanged case for ejection/extraction.
Compare the systems on two guns made by the same mfg, one rimless and one rimmed. The rimless version with the spring loaded tab looks fragile and only grabs a tiny piece of the case. Sooner or latter it will fail to function correctly.

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old colonel,
I think they are a mistake mostly because they have no rim. I am one of those old farts that beliaves a tipup rifle of any barrel configuration "belongs" to be chambered for a rimed cartridge;also other single shots, but not quite so strict for #1&3s.Pressures are also a factor, especially in 308 and 243. My friend Walter Grass reported that in his o/u double rifles, 30-06 was the third most requested caliber( in 1970s),but still prefered a rimmed cartridge( 9.3x74 was first, 7X65R second). If a customer demanded it, he would build a combo gun in 243, but said they always caused problems.If they wanted a 308, he talked them into 30-06.They can take the pressures, but shoot loose quicker, and give more problems with extraction.
Mike

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Merkel and Blaser make quite a few tip-up single-shot rifles in rimless, relatively high pressure cartridges, up to and including 7 mm Magnums. Anyone have one shoot loose in normal use?

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Thank you for the answer I appreciate the opinion and understand the issue. As a more often than not 16/65mm guy I appreciate both the challenges of ammo and the pleasure of shooting something more unique.

Further the rimmed vs. belted rounds are an advantage. On pressure, I have little doubt it is correct that some of the modern cartridges are higher pressure but still within the range of the weapon's capability, though potentially greater wear producing.

I must admit I am predisposed to traditional calibers, however I also am predisposed to not buying anything more for two years while I play with what I already have and prepare to move to a new house, so everything is speculation on my part.

Last edited by old colonel; 06/03/13 08:09 AM.

Michael Dittamo
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Originally Posted By: vangulil
Merkel and Blaser make quite a few tip-up single-shot rifles in rimless, relatively high pressure cartridges, up to and including 7 mm Magnums. Anyone have one shoot loose in normal use?



They do make them for these cartridges, but because of demand from customers that want to buy ammo at the Wal-Mart.There is nothing wrong with these calibers, nor with Wal-Mart ammo.It's just that they were intended for bolt guns.
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I concur


Michael Dittamo
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Finally decided on The Chapuis Series 3 in 7x57R. Regulated with 156 Gr Norma with Leupold 2x7 VX-R Scope. Should do nicely for everything I will most likley hunt.
Thanks for the input and opinions. It was close with the 8x57JRS but since I wont go back to reloading for at least 5 years, I want readily avilable factroy loads with good bullets and Norma fits the bill.


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Sounds like an excellent choice. One concern, however.

For a year or so, Norma ammunition, at least in rimmed cartridges, has been difficult or impossible to find in the US, except for scattered left-over stock. It may have been due to a change in the US Norma importer. Norma 9.3x74R in 286 gr was almost unavailable and in 232 gr was not available at all. Both are now available so that situation, at least, is OK again.

The Norma USA web site lists very few metrics under Products. Only 6.5x55, 9.3x62, and 9.3x74R. It does not list 7x57R. The Norma European web sites list all the usual metrics as available, but that does not mean that they are imported into the US. The Norma Ballistic Calculator may also list metrics that are not available in the US.

It would be worth checking into ammunition availability further before moving forward.

Last edited by vangulil; 06/07/13 11:42 AM.
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I know it isnt available on the American market form Norma. But I see Norma 7x57R for sale at gunshows with enough regularity to be able to buy a box here and there until I have a sufficient reserve. Privi partisan and S&B are both also available. S&B has a poor reputation for performance with the expansion of its bullets on game. The Privi seems to have good reviews on bullet performance. I have my reloading gear all socked away for years. will evenutally get back into that. so factroy for hunting will be taken care of by the Norma I buy at shows.
Brass, bulltes and dies are easy to come by and several BBS members have offered me reloading data that they use for thier 7x57R's as a starting point.


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You'll be happy with the 7x65r. I've used one in a drilling for the past 4-5 years as my primary hunting gun and it performs wonderfully. I reload with a 156gr. Hornady and its proved effective on axis deer and red stag.

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