doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Folding shotguns resist looseness?

It may be just coincidence, but over the years I have examined hundreds if not thousands of break open shotguns, both double and single, and it looks like folding shotguns do not come off face as often as the rest.

Most of the folding shotguns examined were fairly cheap, usually Spanish and Belgian, some British, so quality is not the main reason for their holding together so well.

Before going on to theorise about this I would like the input of others on the topic. If you have any experience with folding shotguns and their durablity please feel free to add your observations.

I often wondered about the durability of cheap singles too. I have a Stevens double from the 1930s that I bought for dog training from an old dairy farmer. Really rough and the last 3 inches of the barrel bulged like a cartoon. Sawed off the bulge and it has been my utility/dog training gun ever since. Obviously abused, it still is tight as can be. The barrels proudly say "barrel and lug forged in one piece" so I guess it has a "chopper lump" barrel!

My "Companion" Italian folder, purchased in 1973 and shot plenty, isn't loose. When I'm at a show I make it a point to examine the similar guns that I see, and I don't ever recall seeing one that could be described as loose, when it was closed, including a Beretta trap specific version of the gun that had seen many thousands of rounds.
I have no idea why they don't seem to get loose.

Best,
Ted

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a "folding" shotgun and how does it vary from a "break-open" shotgun?

I've been wondering that too. Sounds like a Ronco product like the Ronco Pocket Fisherman.

Sorry I did not clarify the terms.

A folding shotgun is a break open action where the barrel is attached to the action via a screw-in cross pin. Normally it cannot be taken down like a "normal" break open shotgun by taking off the forend. The gun can fold over on itself rather than be taken down. In the UK the type is often called a "poacher's gun" due to its foldability and resulting concealability.

The Beretta 412 SB, the Bernardelli Game SXS, Investarm OUs, are typical modern folding guns. Prewar folding shotguns were offered by many Spanish and Belgian makers, both single and SXS.

The typical folding shotgun does not have separate lumps, no middle bridge in the action, no supporting steel in front of the cross pin. In other words it is missing the parts that are often cited as being important if not vital to action strength.

I read an article on folding guns which explains their strenght by two factors:
a) the power that lifts the barrels off the action depends on the leverage between the pivot point of the barrels and the lockup element(s), the greater the distance between the pivot point and the lockup the less power, and in folding guns this distance is about three times greater than in common designs
b) the pivot assembly itself is shaped as a complte crossbolt, and it holds the barrels more firmly than the regular setup.

Most of the folders I have seen are single barrel thus there is no lateral force applied to the hinge pin or barrel lump when that single barrel is fired. The double on the other hand has lateral force applied dependant on which barrel is fired.
This 'theory' may be total, whatever is the polite word for merde, but it makes some kind of sense to me.
On the other hand the majority of folding guns I have seen in the past thirty or so years did not last long enough (mechanically) to show any looseness. Going back a bit the old BSA singles etc seemed to last forever.

Thought I would post some pictures of some "Folders" that I have in my shop. The first three are side lever opening, the button on the left side will allow the barrel(s) to fold as it pushes the normal stop to the side. The Beretta has a cocking handle forward of the triggerguard that cocks and when pulled fully back allows the barrels to tip open and/or fold.
The skeleton stock on the 410 is kind of unteresting, I read in an old catalog that it reduces the weight 4 oz. The chamber length on the 20ga German folder is more than 3".

Regards and Merry Christmas to All you Gentleman

Thank you for the great pics Jerry, they illustrate the folder type brilliantly.

Humpty Dumpty, do you perhaps remember where you saw the article? Both points are very interesting.

300846- Bernardelli used to make a folding double, its cheapest SXS, it has a reputation of long lasting service.