doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Purdey or H&H Royal? Which is the best Investment?

That's all the advice you need then. Find Dig and Toby, who post here, then tell them what you want.

Bilious Bob and Homer, let's focus on the question, and not just dig at one another. There is enough vitriol in the media, we should focus our common concern for doubleguns here.

The question is which is likely a better investment, the Holland & Holland Royal or the Purdey?

The answer is neither and it depends. It depends mostly on what you pay for the gun and how long you will hold it. In the short term most, if not all profit is made on the purchase price and not on the sale.

The comment that high end guns can be hard to move is true. While some of us are positioned with friends and acquaintances, who can pay a fair price, many are not and trying to sell a high end gun at a good price can be a long and painful process. I do not believe that high grade guns are a good investment vehicle because they are not very liquid.

That said if one is to bet on the future market in terms of which gun is likely to go up in value more than the other between the two I think it is a draw. If I were looking to invest in a high end used gun as an investment I would buy a McKay Brown 20.

That said I have not the money and I am not in your league

Neither one. The market topped out on most English stuff a few years ago and it hasn't come back. English stuff was soft at the last Julia's auction and there are tons of high-quality English guns on the market right now. Just go to Gunsinternational and search for Purdeys.

If I wanted a Purdey or a Holland, I would look for all original, pre-war guns, cased, lots of condition. That's what people will always want.

Find a dealer that has something on consignment and then hammer him on the price. The dealers wants to sell so he can at least make some money, and the consignor is probably tired of waiting for some cash. Make your money on the buy, not on any thoughts of appreciation.

That being said, real nice, all original American stuff seems to keep going up - at least in the small bores.

Other than that, just enjoy life and forget about all this fiscal cliff stuff. It's just the haters, media & political interests whipping you up so you'll pay attention and do what they want.


OWD

A new, bespoke Purdey, ideally in a smaller bore, is the only gun currently made that will retain its value. Other, new, London best guns will follow closely such as H & H, and Boss. Any other UK or new Italian or Spanish gun will lose a considerable amount of value after it is purchased with the possible exception of Fabbri

Regarding used guns as investments is rather unwise, even for the best London guns. If you buy one, buy it to shoot because it will have very limited liquidity and you will most likely lose some amount of money unless you hold it for a period of time. I would look for a "best" gun made before 1939 and in the most original condition you can find. Prices for these London guns seem to be better in the UK than in the US.

Said another way, you make your money when you buy, not when you sell. If you are looking at this as an investment (ie, getting more than purchase price back), you will be competing with a lot of dealers and sophisticated collectors looking to do the same thing. That means a lot of time in the market trying to find that good deal before they do. And if you do find that good deal, shooting your investment is risky because you will likely degrade the original condition of the gun and be putting it at risk of something more catastrophic (broken stock, dented barrels).

If you are looking for a shooter that has a good prospect of being resold for what you paid for it, that opens the field up more. You might want to peruse some of the recent UK and US auction results to see what has been fetching the best prices recently. Doing that however, assumes that the "market" will be the same 20-30 years from now. Who knows - maybe Churchill XXVs and Scottish boxlocks will be all the rage to the next generation of collectors. Who in 1980 was predicting the current market for vintage sxs?

This small bore Purdey hammered down for $60,000 ($69,000 all in to the buyer):

http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/view_lot_info.asp?lot=2359-327

It probable cost a bit more than that new.

OWD

Well in what I have seen, Americans think more of the Purdey and the British think more of the Royals.
I happen to have one of each for sale.

Good advice Col. both in regard to investments and postings. Advice re investment is what I was trying to give- I keep plenty of handguns. Someday they could be the currency.

Speaking from a UK perspective and acknowledging that Toby and Dig know the market very much better than I do, this my take. You indicate that you want to shoot this gun, so go with the one that pleases you most. Your enjoyment will come from it's use, not it's resale value.

Having said that, should you decide to buy a best gun as an investment only, you surely must take into consideration your other investments, your portfolio in the round and your tax situation. In the UK guns are treated as a wasting asset, along with classic cars, fine time pieces and model railways (amongst others). Essentially the tax man recognizes that anything with a 'recognised lifespan of 50 years or less' is a wasting asset. Furthermore, when sold or inherited by one's heirs, they are free of our capital gains tax, usually paid on the sale of other asset classes, including stocks, bonds, property and so on.

I would therefore only consider buying best guns - Purdey (Woodward), H&H, Boss - as an investment if I was in the happy position of having to find a home for a great deal of money and where I needed to spread my risk into alternate asset classes. What a great situation to be in, I can dream now of my collection of wonderful shotguns, rifles, classic cars, boats and wine! Additionally, I think the key would be to invest in those guns that we know would retain their value. If the value goes up during our ownership, so much the better.

By the way, I have nothing to do with the whole investment community, other than using it when I have to!

Tim

I think this would be a good investment


http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20066/lo...ta_currency=GBP