doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Heavy Loads in Older SxS's ?

To what extent are so-called heavy loads likely to damage an older American classic SxS ?

I regularly shoot 1-1/8 ounce 12 gauge loads in my older American SxS's, for both pheasant and quail. Others that I hunt with often use 1-1/4 ounce and some Golden Pheasant 1-3/8 ounce loads.

Setting aside the question of whether the additional weight of shot is necessary; are these heavy loads damaging to the shotguns? Especially to L.C. Smiths and Lefevers with their sidelock/sideplate inletting. Are these heavy loads more likely to cause cracks in the buttstocks or wrists?

I'm supposing that since the pressure is within SAAMI limits, metal damage is probably not a significant issue?

Opinions ???

Jerry

Jerry:

1. IMO, what you mention are heavy loads, "not so called"...and yes, very likely to damage older side by sides with 85 + year old wood.

2. I don't know what kind of quail you are shooting down there, but I have never used anything over 7/8 ounce of lead for quail....any more is a waste IMO....

3. The additional weight of shot (ejecta) is "what" creates most of the recoil and thus damage to 85+ year old wood especially in side lock guns which have weaker stock heads because of all the inletting.

4. Old 85+ year old guns have NO IDEA what SAAMI is, since it was not around when they were made. I would suggest RST or Poly Wad Vintagers or similar loadings for "off the shelf ammo" based on what bird you are after.

Use your own disgression, but common sense dictates much lighter loads for the old ladies, if you want long term problem free use of those guns.

Just my opinion....

I've seen few Lefevers that don't have at least a small crack at the head, usually at the lower tang. While the actions are built like tanks, 100 yr old wood is 100 yr old wood, no matter who shaped it. If there is a legitimate need to shoot more than 1 oz loads, I would make sure the action is glass bedded at a minimum.

Parker



Smith





NID



Fox ready for staple repair courtesy of cc/dt

On the other hand Turn-of-the-century Pigeon shooters were using 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 dram loads routinely

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1897/VOL_28_NO_22/SL2822019.pdf
Dr. Hinkins of Chicago, has an L. C. Smith gun that was formerly used by Rolla Heikes. This gun was fired 60,000 times while in the possession of Mr. Heikes and has had over 15,000 shots fired from it since that time by Dr. Hinkins. This goes to show what the
L. C. Smith gun will stand, as it is still tight and strong us a new gun.

The standard 12g load found on L.C. Smith hang tags 1887-about 1920 was 1 1/4 oz. 3 dram

And will never shoot loose!

All the reasons I have given up on old SxS's. I love to shoot and hunt my guns and will load lite stuff for clays, but don't want to have to worry about punky wood, thin barrels, etc. if I decide to hunt a gun and shoot some Super X.

Drew, you missed the whole point/topic........your second post relates to NEW WOOD, NEW GUNS FROM YESTERYEAR.......we are talking about 100 year old guns, 100 year old wood etc.....IN 2012....very big difference.........we all know what they shot back at the turn of the century when the guns WERE NEW.........

If you want to shoot 1 1/4 oz, 3 1/2 DE in your original LC stocked gun today, knock yourself out.......best of luck.......post a picture for us after 2,000 rounds will ya.......

"Drew, you missed the whole point/topic"

Uh Doug...you missed the and apparently the pics



I've had the head of the stock of my Smith big country pheasant gun glasbedded and shoot B&P MB Classic 1 1/8 oz. at 1330 fps without concern.

jerry: hit aint the metal you gotta worry about...hits da wood!

figure wood drys out and shrinks over time. plus, soakin hit wid gon awl jes makes hit weaker.

so when you shoots your 50 year old gun, wid hits 50 plus year old wood, hit's eventually gonna crack, regardless of the load. the heavier the load, the sooner hits gonna crack... got it?

now for the good news. in recent years, science has created some absolutely wonderful epoxy glues...so when she does crack, jes glue er up with some clamps an keep on shootin! if its a really valuable piece, dont shoot it with heavy loads and bring it to a pro once a year for evaluation.

It's the wood is right, and it's the wood because over that long a time it shrinks and often splits whether you shoot the gun or not. Once it splits it's more likely to fail, especially with heavy loads. A lot of vertical cracks in stock heads can not be closed and glued without relieving some wood around the receiver. I've seen that a number of times. You close and glue a crack up and the stock will not go back on the gun.