doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com new hammer drilling code questions

I am once again guilty of picking up strays. Just found a hammer drilling in need of some major help, which this time will include welding.
Aside from that and pictures later, it is an Austrian double 20 (15.1 on shotgun over an 11.7 stamp on the rifle) which could be a mystery Werndl type round.
It has both Austrian (EF) and German (crown G and Crown S ) stamps on the respective barrels.

The number string on the bottom rib is: 4022.09.150 15.1 11.7

Maker is M. Ogris Ferlach.

Thanks

Tom

Some Pix

I thought that the surprised looking hare was a hoot. On the other side is a dog that I swear is smiling.

Also visible is the missing chunk of wood and someone who broke off the top of one hammer was kind enough to grind both of them to match.

And proofs


Thanks for the help

Tom

Tom,
How about a chamber cast and slug the bore?
Mike

Nice looking engraving, Tom. I was wondering about the hammer until I read about it being broken. Is the trigger guard missing?

Proofed in 1909 and in about 4 years M. Orgis, Ferlach along with Carl Bittiner of Liege, Gustav Bittner of Weipert & F.A. Klett were authorized outlets for Gebr�der B�hler's Antint rostsicher. I suspect that Spezialstahl & Blitzstahl were sourced from the same mechanics for a time.

The datastring you give on the lower rib is the inital pass or preliminary datastring: 4022.09.150 15.1 11.7
House number.year.tube diameter.tube diameter.lower tube diameter. I think the 11.7 to actually be a 11.1(or was it in the final state of 11.7mm) and the decimals between the 15.0 & 15.1 should be at the top. I assume the diameters are for left and right, but that is just a guess. What are the final pass number adjacent to the flats?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It looks like the preliminary pass & final pass have the same values. That coupled with what looks to be an Eagle Crown/S further up on the scattergun tubes makes me believe that it was sourced in the white from Suhl or Zella-Mehlis

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thank you. Knowing the history of these guns is certainly half of it.

The individual tubes have their 15.1(l) 15.0(r) and 11.7 Corection above as well, it wasn't 150 but 15.0.

The other data string is 7959.09.
As far as being sourced in the white, the left shotgun barrel has crown S partially buried under the bottom rib and I think that you can see this in the last pic if you look at the upper right. On the left is the pineapple crest thing.
There is also a Crown G on the rifle tube.
Prima Essen, Gewehr Lauf Stahl Fried Krupp stamp on the top of the shotgun tubes.
Misc other markings including a K, OG and an EA near the hook.

Would have been nice to have nitro proofs but such is life.

I spoke with recoil Rob and we are probably going to cast it up today. The bore is a shooter with what looks like a.443 groove. Case is a short 1.6 of so, .535 base and .618 rim.

Right lock needs a new mainspring and stirrup, and the horn guard is missing, but the screws aren't.

Whew.

Tom

It may be that M. Orgis applied little effort the sporting weapon and that the mechanics marks of K, OG & EA are all from Suhl. K & EA are common for Suhl proofed examples and right off I guess OG could be for Otto G�nzler of Suhl but I'm sure there are other possibilities. Not too many choices in the short mm range in 11.7mm, maybe 11.7 X 49R? It was available during that period and the base(14.4mm) & rim(15.9mm) seem similar.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Wow. Thanks for the tour through early 1900s gunmaking. I have been following the research and history found in many of these posts and it is interesting to see who ended up where doing what. Also, as I saw in another post, discrepancies that only become cleared up with help from the othe side of the pond. What great research.

As for the cartridge, the closest base seems to be the 11.15 Werndl, although .010 over on the base. It is Austrian. Easier to size down than up. Unless i measured wrong, the martini case is too small in the base.
Time to make a cast.

Tom

Cerrosafe is on the stove and the beers cold, Tom.