doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pitch - just what does it accomplish?

Friends:

I am working on the stock of my NID clays gun again. It has zero pitch. I got to wondering if it should be zero, and why it is so in the first place? Aesthetics? Comfort?

I stopped and re-read Bristers "Shotgunning the Art and the Science". He has little to say about pitch, so I am back where I started. Looked up pitch in Greener -he adds nothing of value. I looked also in Burrard. He says less than Greener.

So, in address to this august body - what does pitch actually DO? Is it merely a comfort issue? Or does pitch help control the point of impact?

Comments solicited.

Thanks

Regards

GKT

How about recoil? Does pitch have something to do with perceived recoil? Jake

Just a guess but I imagine the proper pitch faciltates a consistent mount and directs the recoil straight back into the shoulder. If the recoil caused the butt to slide up or down instead of straight back gun would not be in proper position for a followup shot.

Bruce Buck says: "If your pitch is between zero and two inches, you are in the ball park. If not, a little shimming with bits of plastic will bring it around. If you do not know what pitch is, leave it alone. Our main concern today is height and cast and their effect on point of impact."

So apparently he doesn't think pitch has anything to do with point of impact.

I have a gun that has 5" of pitch. I laid the gun on a level surface and raised the barrels up 2 inches then put a piece of wood under the barrels to keep it there. I then took a square and put it against the side of the stock so it was flush with the end of the toe. The line I drew will take 5/16" off the heel to get the 2" of pitch and only 1/16" at the center of the stock where I measure LOP. It would take off even more wood from the heel if I go to 0 pitch. If that angle doesn't effect point of impact as Buck implies and what the silence of those others implies too then I suggest it may only have value for ease of mounting. If I take that 5/16" off to get 2" of pitch that's 5/16" less wood that has to clear my arm pit when mounting. So maybe the 0 pitch your gun has would have an advantage for quick mounting, or maybe not depending on how you mount the gun and how long of a length of pull you like. The longer the LOP or the more layer of clothes you wear the more value 0 pitch may have.

Larry

Does the pitch of the butt effect POI? Does the gun recoil before the charge exits the barrel? Couple of old Does the?s that need to get together and get their story strait!

jack

yOu guys pitch'n the same...Are you guys talking about the angle of the butt plate ?

In my experience, pitch both affects the perceived recoil as well as the point of impact .. the former much more so than the latter. Too much pitch down will normally cause the gun to come up into the cheek and it will also tend to shoot just a tad lower. Conversely, too little pitch or in an extreme case negative pitch [pitch 'up'] will cause the gun to want to slip from the shoulder pocket and will tend to have a slightly higher point of impact.

I tend to think that the more punch in the face with excessive down pitch comes into play more with a premounted gun than not and that a reverse or negative pitched gun was set up to shoot vertical overhead targets. That has been my conclusion in any case. In the former instance, I have had several different guns [normally O/U's, but I'm not sure it makes that much dif as to type] that were bruisers and reducing the pitch eliminated the issue completely.

The only gun that I have personally owned with negative pitch is a light weight French made SxS that actually works fairly well on close in very high tower birds, but it honestly would be much better, IMO, w/a slight amount of down pitch. At present it remains unmodified w/original horn butt plate and as such is not usable for any other type of shot, that I can determine. I would almost dare someone to premount it and keep the butt in the pocket when fired, I cannot.

My thot is that if you have a vertical shoulder pocket, then zero or neutral pitch may be called for. However, most people will have some amount of build 'out' when they are shouldering a shotgun; big & heavy guys and well endowed women could be expected to have more build out than thin guys and gals. Said another way, thin people would need a bit less pitch than heavy people. Both of those statements are generic and there are certainly exceptions.

In terms of easy measurement .. using a door jamb and checking with a square that said jamb is square to the floor .. with the butt firm on the floor & the rib against the jamb a space of somewhere from 1.25"~2.0" measured at a height of 28" up the jamb would be about right, for most people. I find 1.5" at that height is near perfect for me. It can be stated in degrees if you like, but most of us find a tape measure or ruller and door jamb handier to take a quick measurement with. A table top & square as previously described works fine for layout before changing it.

I think that the shooting styles of earlier times were quite dif from today's and as such very few people placed their cheeks firmly to the comb. Rather, they tended to bring the bbls up to the target with their heads erect and therein lies the reason for the drop we find in many older guns and also, in some cases the excessive pitch down, if present, may have been to better accommodate the heavy and thick clothing often worn, but that is a guess on my part about the pitch.

I have also noticed that guns purpose built for International skeet tend to have more pitch down than guns built for American skeet.

Tw,
sounds about what I've experienced with pitch. I have a beautiful Crass that was expertly restored, but has near 0 pitch. This causes the gun to slip from my shoulder at least half the time I shoot. The gun is too well done to a factory 115 year old buttplate to alter it. I've been thinking about a little piece of tapered rubber with 2 way tape to add to the heel.

I've never understood why pitch was measured in inches at the muzzle rather than angle of the butt. An inconsistant way of measurement as the length of a gun differs from one to the next, sometimes greatly. It should be changed IMO.

IMO, and that of some other respected sources I've read, the most important function of pitch is to achieve maximum contact between the butt and your shoulder pocket. This spreads the effect of recoil out over the full area of the butt, thereby giving you the minimum felt recoil.
I believe pitch has little, if anything, to do with POI. I can imagine it did when shooters shot with their head erect and no regard to cheeking the comb. This would explain the "hockey stick" drops common on older guns, American, especially. We have since learned more consistent shooting is achieved when the cheek is planted against the comb.
I also agree 100% with Chuck's second paragraph. I cut my stocks at a 90 degree angle to the comb and that makes the butt fit my body best. Monte Carlos would be a possible exception. I have no interest at all in what the actual pitch is, by the traditional measurement.
Lot of good thoughts in TW's post. The similarities between his and mine shows we agree on many points. 'Twas not my intent to "Bidenize" his.

A 1/16 thick shim will move the pitch about 1 inch on a 28 inch solid action gun. Recoil control is the primary reason for changing pitch.
bill