doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com New Haven Arms: What is it? Baker, Syracuse or ??

A friend of mine has a side by side 12 gauge double marked New Haven Arms Co. that I have pictured below. He said it was made by the Baker Gun Company but the frame makes it look more like a Syracuse Arms double. It has twist steel barrels that are marked �NEW HAVEN ARMS CO. NEW HAVEN CONN� on the top rib. The gun is serial numbered 51871 on the barrel flats, water table, fore end iron and fore end wood. Has an unmarked hard rubber butt plate. Trigger plate is marked �PATENTED AUG. 12 1884�. The �engraving� looks to be etched rather than engraved. Over all nice condition with the wood nicely refinished.
Any thoughts on who made it and what it�s worth? He would like to get $750.00 for the gun but I think that is on the high side.

This gun looks pretty much identical to a gun marked �W. A. ABEL & Co. SYRACUSE NY� that I had asked about on this forum a couple years ago. The only difference is the name marking on the top rib and the serial number: 50901. A couple pictures of that gun follows pictures of the NEW HAVEN ARMS gun.

Thanks for any insight anyone might have. Will have the gun posted on the �FOR SALE� forum in a week or so.

Jolly








Pictures of W. A. Abel & Co. Syracuse, NY

The New Haven looks to be a Batavia Hammerless or New Era.
The W.A. Able a Baker Gun & Forging C grade (without the upper screw in the receiver). Another was "Clark's Imperial, Omaha, Neb."

Henry Allender Aug. 12, 1884 patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=oLdAAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=henry+allender#PPA1,M1

Both have what Baker called "Best London Damascus Twist"

Later Baker Standard with one lower pin and "Nitro-Rolled Steel" barrels



Daryl or Researcher will set me right if I'm confused

Bill and Drew, the New Haven gun is a Baker C Grade as suspected. There were several names these were marketed under. The Baker Standard has the same sort of Hollenbeck type receiver profile, but is different mechanically than the C Grade inside. I suspect, but have not real proof, that Baker [ca 1915] found some old C Grade forgings and decided to make guns out of them. This was about 15 years after the C Grade was stopped.

My Baker has this look

The Syracuse gun, and the New Era gun made by Syracuse are easily identified by the fact that these Syracuse guns have only two pins in the frame sides; and they also have a much wider barrel lug (5/8" wide to 3/8" wide).

Here is the correct link to the Allender patent courtesy of Ken Georgi
http://www.google.com/patents?id=oLdAAAA...der&f=false

I've never been able to see anything in Allender's patent that seems to apply to these guns.

Researcher, I agree. Maybe there's something in the cocking bar/hammer relationship, but the Baker sidelocks cocked in a similar way to the C grade. The Allender patent was 10 years old before Baker put it's reference on the Batavia Hammerless [C].

Thanks for all the input and comments on the New Haven and W. A. Abel guns. Interesting stuff.