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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Boxlock
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Boxlock

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Howdy!
I am new to this forum and this subject matter.
My Brother was recently given a German double rifle. As I am regarded as the family "Gun Guy" he asked me for some help in identifying and possibly getting a value.

It has a large bore rifle barrel on the right side and a shotgun barrel on the left.

The only markings found so far are "o hellmann in heilbronn 10713".

I can't find any info on the Net.
I also have a few camera quality pictures.

Thanks!

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Hi
Your gun is a combination gun and the shotgun beside the rifle configuration typically being referred to as a Cape Gun.

Pictures would be very help in providing any additional information.

Doug

Joined: Mar 2012
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Thanks Doug. Here are the pictures he sent me.


Last edited by Big Daddy 45acp; 04/03/12 08:54 PM.
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Sidelock
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This is right up Raimey's alley. I am looking forward to his insights.

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One more.

Last edited by Big Daddy 45acp; 04/03/12 08:56 PM.
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Sidelock
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Interesting Lefaucheux action combo with the triggerguard bow left over from the muzzle-loading era. The artistic design was to turn form into function in that it was used as a rest for gunning early on. I think it was sourced from Suhl but I really need to see if there are any markings on the underside of the tubeset. I don't know that I've seen that many Lefaucheux actions that sport the Deeley & Edge forend fastner of 1873, so it would have been manufactured after that. I think Heilbronn was part of the Königreich Württemberg as one of the Hellmann mechanics, Heinrich or O., was a supplier to that court or reside in that kingdom. Heilbronn was wadded up under the German Empire umbrella in 1871 and then was the locale for the salt mines where the Germans hid the art they commandeered. I would guess O. Hellmann to be a son or younger brother to Heinrich Hellmann and Axel might have additional info as well as their telephone number. H. Hellmann seems to have hung out his shingle in the percussion era, active as early as the last 1830s and O. Hellmann followed later. It may be that Jacob Waltz sourced Heinrich Hellmann before immigrating to Arizona to search for gold or it may be folklore and a Jacob Waltz shotgun was a derogatory term for a German scattergun. But like I said interesting and what is most interesting is the 1st couple inches of the unfigured steel tube. Is that an odd, original profile? My 1st guess is for the 0.43" Mauser. Nice horn work on the underlever.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Thanks Raimey! I think. Wow, that's a lot of info first thing in the morning.
By any chance would you know anyone/place who could do an honest appraisal in New England?

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I really don't know of anyone right off but I wouldn't think it would realize a value over say $1200 U.S. of A. It's a soft market and with issues it may approach 1/2 of that value.

Can you describe, get a better image of the area with the red arrows?



Also any chance of a few images of the undersides of the tubeset?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Sidelock
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Baumgarten has set me straight on the odd profile which seems to be typical on early lower pressure cartridge chambers to reduce weight.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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I'll be seeing him this weekend. I'll see what I can do. Thanks for everything so far!

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