doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Faking English Guns

I have a friend from England who worked for Malins back in the day. In his words...Malin did use cheap and sub-quality Spanish barreled actions and it used to drive the guys making the guns nuts..they'd spend many more hours than necessary trying to make things right. They pleaded with Frank to bring in better quality actions and barrels. Malin did alot of shady things, but was supposedly a very likeable guy and quite the story teller. I would be very sceptical when buying a Malin marked gun, the quality was all over the place. During this time period, many old name prestigous British gunmakers were doing what Malin was doing though....J. Blanch, Rigby, Powells, etc.

I at one time, very early in the game, ignorantly bought a "fake" gun. It was marked as a Francotte and built on a very early Sauer made boxlock action. The gun closely resembled a Lindner Daly. The quality was very good, but it was not a Francotte, it did not have the appropriate makers marks on the action and barrel flats and the serial number was all wrong. Why anyone would spend that much time faking a gun (the gun was 100% scroll engraved, Francotte name in a flowing banner and above average stockwork) and not put their own name on it is besides me. They should've been proud of the work they did to fake this gun!!

Dustin

This has been going on for years. I see some of it and can reconize it some of the time. But some are so good that you would not know. I can tell you this for sure. A number of years ago I sold a decent 21 to a major dealer. The gun was in about 85% condition, maybe 90%. Later, I saw this gun at the vegas show. Now its all original and mint.

John Boyd

gjw,
The subject gun dose not look anything like the Shotguns built by the late Frank Malin when conducting business in Melborne and London Ontario.In fact it looks to me like a Spanish made Gun,as stated in the sellers write up.
If you wish to learn more about Frank Malins Business activities in Canada,simply click on the search column of this forum.Then enter F.Malin.Read my post dated 29/06/09 and you will have the facts.
Frank,s problem was that he was overly ambitious and ahead of the curve! Now we have,William Powell,William Evans, Purdey & others importing Spanish and Italian actions and barrels, in the white, into the U.K. for finishing and engraved with their name,I dont see any one labeling these companies as fraudsters.
Frank did indeed own the Boswell name.I supplied Frank with a copy of a vintage Boswell catalogue.At least at the outset, before others took over the company, his objective was to build Candian made quality versions of the Boswell range of guns.

By Eoinsloan
There is a difference between faking and BADGE ENGINEERING. These Boswells are not fakes they are simply the products of a company which has bought the name and by law are entitled to use the name. It has always been "caveat emptor" in business. As an example: Is a Miroku built Browning Auto 5 a fake Browning? Closer to the knuckle: is my 1978 Franchi AL48 a fake Browning? The Browning Patent had run out so no it is not a FAKE. I own 4 Boswells 1872, 1888, 1903 and 1929 - Boswell family control ended in 1944 and any post1944(SN18056 and up) require special consideration as to whether you are buying a 'real' Boswell.

Not unusual as most English Gunmakers now advertise guns that are made in Spain or Italy but bear their name. Certainly William Evans and William Powell do it as do Churchill and Purdey with some of their over under guns. They buy the actions in the white and finish them. They don't make a secret of the fact. These guns come out at a lower price than their English made counterparts.

Sauerfan brings up and interesting point from Greener having been faked by someone styling himself Greenen and putting guns onto the market. I had one marked W.J.Greenen The Strand, London. I did sell it on. Actually it was a nice gun built on a Bonehill Mathews lever cocking action. I had a stunning stock but most unusual game scene engraving depicting cranes and palm trees. Most odd. I still have photos on file if anyone would like me to post them. Why they should need to fake it is a mystery as it was certainly not a poor quality object. Lagopus.....

Roy, Holland have never used Spanish actions or barrels, they did use "brought in" actions from Birmingham for their lower grade stuff pre 1880, best, Mike

Holland also acquired Scott in the mid-80's, producing Scott-made boxlocks marked Holland. That might be confusing to those without some knowledge of the British gun trade, but it was certainly well-known at the time that those boxlock Hollands were actually Scotts. Much as a Browning Citori is actually a Miroku.

I once saw a 28ga Hellis with correct British proofmarks which I'm pretty sure was Spanish. Dated from the 1980's, if I recall correctly.

Once had a dealer who knew I liked doubles try to sell me a H & H "boxlock". Viewing the gun revealed it to be marked Holland Holland (No &) bearing Belgian proofs. While not a "Best" it did appear o be a well made & servicable gun, not shoddily built, but I declined.

Hi Lagopus,

cranes and palm trees?! Yes, I like to see photos of this "Greenen" gun!

Regards

Martin

I have a story to offer to this conversation. It is a tragedy rather than a comedy. The fellow who offered the fake Purdey that I mentioned in the second post, a friend, also mentioned that the owner of the guns he had on consignment had a long history of paying big prices for bad guns, but my friend could never break him of his bad habit. The conclusion of my story is that my friend also showed me a "bad" Parker from this same consignor. As I understand it, the gun was sold to an experienced collector who displays the gun as a rare original high grade small bore gun.