doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Georg Knaak / Max Meffert Berlin

Some images of a Georg Knaak Berlin were kindly sent to me this week. Max Meffert acquired the business in 1907, so I'm curious if Max Meffert had married Georg Knaak's daughter or if there was some other family relationship there. But the main reason for the effort is the 75mm chambers found on this Blitz action and an August Jung 16 bore with 75mm chambers. I realize that one is a 20 bore and the other a 16. Would the Georg Knaak be considered an off-season sporting arm?










Note the YJ, or some variant, tube makers stamp. I wonder if the craftsman was actually a Jung out of Zella-Mehlis?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Mike Ford notes that 75mm cartridges were offered before 1900:
"There are dimensions in German for both shells and chambers (CIP) going past 3", but I couldn't find any actual shells. I did find 75mm( 3" is 76mm) cases in the 1886 catalog from Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik, Lorenz. They were aquired by DWM in 1896."

Marc put me on to the Gevelot firm:

http://eng.gurtner.fr/index.php?p=121&art_id=

http://www.csmcspecials.com/Gevelot_Cartridge_Display_p/gevelot.htm

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The Knaak drilling first: The gun was made and proofed in Suhl post-1912. No, it cannot be considered an off-season arm, as it's rifle barrel is proofed for a cartridge considered a "serious big-game load" by some around WW1, even popular today for roe deer shooting. The markings 5.5mm bore diam., 52mm case length and 4 gramm copper jacket bullet show it to be a 5.6x52R aka .22 Savage High Power. A family relationship Knaak/Max Meffert is not known, but both gundealers were near neighbors in Berlin, Friedrichstrasse. In 1910 after a settlement M.Meffert's business was amalgamated into "Deutsche Waffenfabrik Georg Knaak", already owned by Max Meffert since 1908. Also in 1910 the company was bankrupt, but it continued under obscure ownership and management at least to 1941. Despite the designation Waffenfabrik = arms factory it is very doubtful if they ever actually made any guns, they were sort of international dealers in all kinds of arms , ammo and military equipment, so the drilling was probably made for export.
The Jung drilling in 7x57R and 16/75 was proofed in Zella-Mehlis October 1939, so it was made by the Z-M guntrade. There are 17 "Jung" listed in Suhl, 4 in Zella-Mehlis, 3 in Viernau, a village about 8km west of Zella-Mehlis, and 6 more elsewhere in Germany. The only August Jung was one of the Viernau Jungs, so he certainly was part of the Zella-Mehlis trade. In which way he was related to the other Jungs is unknown to me.

Axel thanks for the insight so can you comment on the 75mm chambers? I didn't mention it, and I don't know if you noticed the date-code, but it is something like 8/26.



I've just glanced at the tubemaker's dual stamps, but they appear to be those of Wilhelm Kelber but there may be something amiss as either they were applied off-center or worn?? If not Wilhelm Kelber, then yet another variable.




You are correct on the Viernau as the location and I didn't realize it was so close to Zella Sankt Blasii, Mehlis & Suhl.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Greeting Axel and Raimey,

Can either of you comment on the 16x20 ga? I am baffeled. I have s few 20 ga combo guns and am wondering why the 16x20 shotgun combination? I could understand a 20x20 combination.

thanks for sharing your insights.

Doug

It may be I that has led to your being baffled. Neither are mixed in bore and I don't think the tube relationship or even barrel harmonic would gee-haw. Have to ponder on it then inquire to Mike Ford.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Maybe a bit of info here from an 1890 advert:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2J4LAAA...lin&f=false

He was at Berlin SW 12, Friedrichstra�se 212 and it appears to state he had humble beginnings and in a very short time he was on top of the world. I guess ole Georg Knaak penned this himself.

The firm was at Berlin SW 12, Friedrichstra�se 213 in 1893/1894.

In 1907 the firm sells it all and guarantees it all:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1FEsAAA...lin&f=false

In 1907/1908 the address of the firm is Berlin SW 48, Freidrichstra�e 240-241.

By 1920 the address of the firm is Berlin SW 48, Freidrichstra�se 15, where the firm was till at least 1925.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Can't remember where I lifted these images, maybe Mike/chapman, but one does show Max Meffert was involved in 1907.


Max Meffert listed in 1930.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse