doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Abercrombie & Fitch Francotte 16 ga ID

Please look at pix and tell me which model Francotte this is. 26 inch barrels, BT with A&D latch, Miller SST(see safety pic),ejectors,horn buttplate. serial 88xxx.

Thanks,
Sowega01

The proof marks have a 1960 date stamp. At time of proof the barrels weighed 1.170 Kgs or 2.58 lbs.
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

You can look here for the model and more info.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229328#Post229328

Pete

Hmm. By the SN, that gun is a medium grade, made sometime between 1936-43. Sometimes the date stamps are very clear, sometimes not so much. As best I can see this one, and given the SN, I'd say it's a 1941 gun. But you can find out a whole lot more by contacting Bob Beach at Griffin & Howe. He'll have it in their books if it's an A&F import.

This is one of the fairly uncommon Jubilee grade Francotte's. In 1939 A&F advertised the introduction of the Julbilee model. This was in recognition of the first importation of Francottes by VL&D in 1889. A&F bought VL&D in 1929-30 and continued to import the Francotte shotguns. The Jubilee sold for a bit more than the Grade No. 14 but less than the grade No. 20. As you can see the Jubilee had sideplates but almost no engraving. The Blue Book assigns the name 'Jubilee' to all of the numbered model Francottes imported by A&F but that is not correct. The Jubilee was its own model. There were 40 Jubilee model shotguns imported before the war began. The serial numbers are all between 88658 and 88697. Most were sold in 1939 and 1940. The last two were sold in 1942. This particular example was sold in 1939, returned, and then sold again in 1940. Except for the Miller trigger this looks like a fairly unmolested example. About half of the Jubilee's had beavertail forends and about half had Francotte single triggers. There was also a Skeet version with 26 inch barrels choked Skeet 1 and Skeet 2.

Compliments of Griffin & Howe

Bob Beach
Records Archivist

http://www.griffinhowe.com/research-main.cfm

P.S. - I will have the VL&D and A&F reords on my computer at the Vintagers next week if you care to stop by the G&H tent.

Thanks for all the information. The sideplates on this model appear blued. Would this be original in lieu of case color?

Thanks.

Bob:
Is that 'R' in front of the 'S' @ the safety an indicator that the Right bbl fired 1st w/ the original single trigger?
I don't ever recall seeing that on any double trigger guns...which are all I really ever see.
Thanks.

The "R" is not factory. An "R" and an "L" were stamped by the Millers. This is the early version of the Miller selective trigger. When only the "R" is exposed, the right barrel fires first. When the slide is moved all the way to the rear, the "L" is exposed and the left barrel will fire first. When the "S" and the "R" are exposed, the gun is on safe. This is the middle position. I think Bob Beach may be back to tell us about the blued finish.

Pete,
How do I find the date of proof on my Francotte?

Thanks Bill.
I thought bbl selection w/ a Miller was made via a tab adjacent to the trigger itself, but my familiarity w/ single triggers is obviously extremely limited.
If you favored SSTs, I would think this 'safety' method of bbl selection would be far more desirable?

Go to:

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

scroll down to 'Belgian Date Codes', and see which symbol and date matches the one stamped somewhere on your bbl flats.