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Joined: Nov 2002
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Originally Posted By: Gnomon
The water table should have the maker's name (or mark) stamped on it as well. Yes, Sarriugarte made whole guns. (pronounced: sorry-oohhh-gart-tay - more or less)

By the way, Sears imported an AyA and sold it as their "Model 100" that allegedly is a Model 21 clone.

If the gun has pistol grip, single trigger, no sling swivels and fat beavertail forend it probably was made for export to the US.


The allegations of it being a Winchester 21 clone are false. The method of barrel joining and bolting systems of each piece are different.

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This is a Zabala Derby imported by American Arms, not sure when.
It is a 6 pin (only 5 are used, it has a coil mainspring and the other pin is a dummy), cocking indicators, single non-selective trigger, auto ejectors that use the Southgate syle, hidden second bite,bushed firing pins with gas ports, straight stock with a checkered butt. Weighs 7lbs. .08 ozs with 26" barrels and 7 lbs. 3.6 ozs. with 27 1/2" barrels
I bought a spare set of barrels and fitted them. The barrels that came with it were 26" imp.cyl/mod. These are 27 1/2" and are mod/full. No proof marks or any other marks on the new barrels, but all information on the other set.


Last edited by JDW; 09/15/11 03:47 PM.

David


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Originally Posted By: Gnomon
The water table should have the maker's name (or mark) stamped on it as well. Yes, Sarriugarte made whole guns. (pronounced: sorry-oohhh-gart-tay - more or less)

By the way, Sears imported an AyA and sold it as their "Model 100" that allegedly is a Model 21 clone.

If the gun has pistol grip, single trigger, no sling swivels and fat beavertail forend it probably was made for export to the US.


I should have looked at the water table too. My bad. It is also marked F.S. for Francisco Sarriugarte. So now I have the brand/maker of the whole shotgun. Thanks to all of you guys for helping me out. Any ideas as to its value? I don't want to cheat the guy or be cheated myself if he agrees to sell. The bores are perfect, no bulges, no dings. The stock has some minor chips in the varnished finish but no scratches or gouges, checkering is crisp. The padded butt plate is petrified with age and needs replacing. The triggers appear to have been gold or something plated and the front part of each trigger has the plating wore off from use. From all appearances it was well taken care of.


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You can get approximate prices off Gunbroker. What year was it made? Thre is a year code on the barrel flats.

You still haven't said if it's PG or stratight stock; splinter or beavertail.

I will probably get flamed by the usual flamers but in my opinion beavertail, gold triggers and pistol grip reduce the value.

Many of these Spanish guns are very nice and far better than the new comparably-priced guns.

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No flaming from me. smile With so much info to look at I neglected to include it does have a beavertail fore end and a pistol grip stock. I do prefer a splinter fore end and straight stock but I'll forgive the pisol grip in that it isn't near as pronounced as some shotguns I've handled. The stock is comparable to my Remington 1900.


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Francisco Sarriugarte made complete guns to just about every price point, from a plain working manís box lock right up to a heavily decorated side lock for the landed gentry. The value of any given FS gun depends on the gun. The triggers arenít gold plated; what you are seeing is heat straw.

Here is a FS box lock thatís a little off the wall:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250448306

Top of the line box lock, gold inlay. Some of his top end side lock guns are just stunning. FS went out of business during the DIARM fiasco.

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Originally Posted By: Kyrie
Francisco Sarriugarte made complete guns to just about every price point, from a plain working manís box lock right up to a heavily decorated side lock for the landed gentry. The value of any given FS gun depends on the gun. The triggers arenít gold plated; what you are seeing is heat straw.

Here is a FS box lock thatís a little off the wall:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250448306

Top of the line box lock, gold inlay. Some of his top end side lock guns are just stunning. FS went out of business during the DIARM fiasco.


Well, this post tied up all the loose ends of this thread except one**. The gun Kyrie posted a link to is almost the twin sister to what I have minus the gold inlay and the engraving on the one here is a floral pattern.

**The loose end that I will tie up now is that I just purchased this well made shotgun and it is now sitting in my gunroom anxiously awaiting pheasant season. This winter the stock will be refinished with a new buttplate.

Thanks for all the help guys. It was greatly appreciated. J.R.B. jerb


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J.R.B.

I've got a twin to your gun. Mine was imported by Bach Walker International in Detroit. Was obviously made for the US market with a beavertail, white line recoil pad, full pistol grip, and 3in chambers. The link that Patriot USA gave you also will tell you the proof date. Mine is Q1 which is 1972.

Only problem with mine is a poorly fitted forearm wood.
Killed 6 blue wing teal with mine this week.

Jeff

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I didn't bother to check the proof date yet. One of these days I have to pattern it. After miking the barrels I notice that the choke bore is a very tight choke. In fact it is the tightest choke of all my 12 bore guns. Looks like I will be waiting to pull the trigger on the left barrel so I don't blow up my pheasants. grin Wood to metal fit is exact on butt stock and forearm.


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JRB,
I like F&Fer, have a Bache Import. It is stamped Q1 which dates it to '72.
Mine weighs just under 7 pounds and doesn't have the cross-bolt and rib extension.
Back of the receiver is scalloped, action is nicely case colored with
minimal/simple scroll engraving. Fences are also carved with a nice floral pattern
but nothing as fancy as the gunbroker gun. BTFE and semi-pistol grip with white-line spacers.
BTFE is nice and trim and nicely fitted to barrels.
Triggers are nicely shaped--not blobs of steel like you sometimes see on the basic spanish guns.
Picked it up last winter for next to nothing, so I'm looking forward to bloodying it this fall.
The only real strike against this gun is the top rib wasn't laid perfectly straight,
but bbls are nicely regulated. Should make a fine shooter.
-jim

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