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I had the gun stripped, inspected, cleaned, and oiled at Turnbull Manufacturing Company. I spoke with their shop supervisor after he provided the barrel thickness measurements I requested. We discussed my options using the Lite [low pressure] loads made by RST for vintage double guns;

� 1 oz. 6800 psi
� 7/8 oz. 5800 psi
� 3/4 oz. 4800 psi

He stated "Any of those will be fine and safe to shoot."

Considering repeated assurances the gun is safe with the RST ammo I am leaving it as is - for this hunting season at least. I will definitely have it sleeved if I choose to sell it someday.

He doesn't have any fingers to loose....

These measurements sound dubious so I'd like a second and third opinion.

I don't know 16 bore measurements by memory but if it were a 12 bore I think the spec is .051" nine inches from the breech as recommended by the proof house.

If it were a vintage boss best hammer gun and it were 9" from the muzzle at .018", i'd say go for it with 5900psi 7/8 ounce loads and have fun.

But if this gun is only .018" so near the breech that sounds really sketchy. I can't imagine putting 6000psi of pressure through a piece of metal that is 2% of an inch thick!

Be real careful and measure several times.

$3800 would get that gun Teague lined...it'd be lovely.

See this thread:

A great visual of a 12 bore chamber is shown so extrapolate for 16 bore in your own mind. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...0738#Post240738

Think about it, the proof house says 9" from breech minimums should be .051". Minimum wall thickness at any point near muzzle should be like .021".

Your gun is .018" at 9" from breech. That's like shooting a gun at .011" or .008" minimum wall near muzzle. Just crazy thin. Wow is that thin. Measure that gun again because I can believe a smith would do that.

I'd have left the pits and shot light loads before taking away that much metal.

One of the dangers of such a thin tube is the ease of picking up a dent while hunting.

In a similar situation, the problem I experienced was thinking about the barrels (pits) made my shooting go to hell, sleeving made the voices stop.

YMMV

No lives or fingers were lost in making this photo

I no longer place my trust with the organization where you had your gun stripped and measured because of a barrel issue noted by them after they did choke work on the gun. It had never been noted by any other smith or during many, many cleanings prior to sending it to them. This was a complete redo/up-grade of a Sterlingworth handled exclusively,from start to finish, with the exception of receiver engraving, by them. They called me about the "problem" after everything....new exhibition wood, significant metal reshaping, extensive engraving....except final blacking of the barrel was done. It's only my opinion, but I think they screwed it up and were denying it. They refused any adjustment at all to the thousands of dollars I had spent with them.

I'd get another opinion on your barrel wall measurements ASAP.

Just so I know for my own benefit: Are you stating the following:

1. Turnbull did your barrel work removing enough material to make one barrel .018" at 9" from the breech?

2. Are you also stating that Turnbull told you that a 16 bore gun is safe to shoot with the shell/pressure/loads above in a gun that IS .018" at 9" from the breech?

If no, please clarify as this ambiguity could devastate their credibility and their business. If yes, this information should devastate their credibility and their business!

And on a personal note, if they did tell you these things and perform the work I'd do ABC:

A. Ask for all your money back
B. Barring that, send a notice with the intent to follow suit.
C. If unsatisfied with their response, get a couple of experts to write you their analysis of the gun and litigate as you have a strong case. (they'd have defied every guideline of the industry and the proof benchmarks that are accepted in dozens of countries as to what "safe" is)

Give it a go. Thats why god gave you 10 fingers, incase you lose some.


John Boyd

Get a refund. End of story. We have trashed Turnbull here. How about we name the selling dealer?