doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 8G experimental TOZ hammer double

Made in 1951 and only one sample been made. Serial number 001. The length of case is very interesting - 80 mm (neither 76 mm (3") nor 89 mm (3 1/2")). One more interesting thing is proof marks absence and probably it could be explained by no such standard caliber as 8G-80mm at the time and still today Factory new condition, barrel length 99 cm (39"), weight 5 Kg (11 pounds).
BTW its for sale and for about $5 grand. If somebody is crazy about big bore guns, I can give seller contact info

Sure they didn't accidentally add a zero ?

Interesting.
It doesn't look right, though. It looks like the stock was refinished recently, with linseed oil treatment they didn't usу back then, and the way the finish comes off the action makes me feel the action was painted black, not browned (that's a pretty common method of DIY "restoration" in here). Also, I don't expect to see proof marks on "experimental" guns, regardless of the gauge, but a TOZ "T in circle inside a triangle" stamp absolutely ought to be there somewhere.
Yet, if the seller is patient enough, it will sell at this price, I believe.

Geno, the 3 1/4" chambered eight bore is probable the most common length for 8's here in Britain and that would equate to 80mm. Is there much use of 8 bores for wildfowl in Russia and can you get the ammo? There are a couple of custom ammunition makers here in Britain who will supply it but most 8 bore owners make it themselves for Industrial cases as I do. Lagopus.....

I'll answer that, in absence of Geno.

There isn't a tradition of using big bored shotguns or punt guns in Russia. You can often hear or read a story involving young hunters that couldn't hit a duck, a Grandpa with an oversized muzzleloader, stuffed with handfuls of powder and shot, shooting at a flock of sitting ducks and killing them all, followed by a very overeggagerated description of recoil - but it has every quality of a myth. The truth is, a market hunter in the old days could never afford the loads for a 8 or 4-bore, and the gentleman sportsmen genreally viewed ducks and geese as low-class, and even when they did, they preferred something else. One of the Romanovs liked waterfowling enough to write a book about it, and he used a matched pair of 12 ga London Best, with loaders.

On the other hand, there are no legal objections to using big bores. The opportunity is there, mostly for waterfowl (like anywhere else). The kind of duck hunting I do, for example, doesn't involve long walks or standing with gun in hand, so there's no reason why I couldn't use an 8-bore handy later in the season, when the birds often come in big flocks. A big bore should shine on pass-shooting geese in spring. You could also shoot a boar with one, if you had the fancy.

There's a moderate interest - most waterfowlers will tell you they wouldn't mind trying a big-bore. Yet, it will take a really rare enthusiast to actually do that. I used to know a chap that had an old big-bore double (I can't remember the gauge now, I think it was an 8 but it migtht have been 10), and he always talked about loading the brass that came with the gun and shooting it, but never did. In the 90's, someone tried to import Zabala Hermanos 10 ga.'s - but no longer does, so that should tell you something too.

Loaded 8-gauge ammo is not available, and, to my knowledge, we don't have the industrial 8-gauge. Importing live ammo of this gauge, I believe, will involve a prohibitive amount of red tape. Bringing in reloading components such as empty hulls, wads, and loading dies, shouldn't be a problem.

Wow, thats pretty cool.

Thanks Humpty. I was a bit curious about the use of big bores in Russia when I saw the picture. Good fun to use but mine only gets dragged out for goose shooting in Scotland where lead shot can still be used; and of course the occasional clay shoot to give it an airing. Lagopus.....

You're welcome

So, in Scotland there's no ban on lead shot for waterfowl? Interesting!
That means, if someone really wanted to know if lead shot was indeed so lethal for waterfowl, the good old island makes a perfect place to run a 100% solid, objective and verifyable study on the matter.
Sorry about the OT.

In Scotland lead is only banned for ducks and geese over wetlands so inland flighting it is o.k. to use lead. In England and Wales the ban is only on ducks and geese. I don't think lead is as serious a contaminent as it is made out. I live in an area where lead is found in its natural state and has been mined here since pre Roman times. I look at clay grounds where tons of the stuff is in the ground and there is no evidence of dying birds and animals. The same in front of grouse shooting butts where lead must lie in a narrow expanse in front and behind but again there are no dying birds. It is now believed that tungsten shot is poisonous. It's all a ploy to restrict shooting. Nearly as much rubbish as so called global warming. Lagopus.....

Do Geno or Humpty have any knowledge of the Russian made 4 bore pump gun we see mentioned and pictured occasionally? What is this gun used for and where does the ammo come from? My last box of Eley 4 gauge ammo cost me $500 plus shipping.