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#230079 05/27/11 07:16 PM
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An information on the maker of this gun?

Thank you
Patrick








PL #230081 05/27/11 07:44 PM
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Zella Mehlis craftsmen sometime prior to July 1921. Pleasure us with a pic of the area around the forend hanger. The tubes are from the Schilling forge and may have only one effort from that facility.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

PL #230083 05/27/11 07:57 PM
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I'm confused!! I see a two sets of bbls, one 12ga & one 16ga having different SN's. Are they fit to the same action?
looked at the wrong number, looks like both bbls do have same SN. I presume a two-gauge set.

Last edited by 2-piper; 05/27/11 08:01 PM.

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PL #230084 05/27/11 07:59 PM
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I think the serial number is 5536. With an assembly number of 152. More than likely an export gun?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

PL #230100 05/27/11 09:27 PM
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Leaning toward an export gun: the third image shows where "Made in Germany" is stamped on the left barrel above the script "Nitro".


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ellenbr #230105 05/27/11 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: ellenbr
Zella Mehlis craftsmen sometime prior to July 1921. Pleasure us with a pic of the area around the forend hanger. The tubes are from the Schilling forge and may have only one effort from that facility.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


Thank you Raimey,
Can you please explain how you determined "Zella Mehlis craftsmen" and Schilling Forge and exactly who the heck that is? I always thought the gun was either Simson or a German guild gun. Attached is a picture of the forend hanger and some others. It is a 12/16 two barrel set.

thank you again
Patrick











PL #230114 05/28/11 05:57 AM
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First off to equate "Guild Gun" and this example with somewhat of a swan's neck and long trigger-guard bow would border on heresy. There wasn't such an animal and the term has been attached to examples that are devoid of the name of a firearms merchant, such pieces originating from a cottage type industry. So the term trade-gun is more inline with most examples. Nah, Simson didn't make this. They were probably focusing on military contracts, autos and bicycles about this time.

The engraving is unique and I can't put my finger on it but maybe Axel E. can attribute it as he is an authority on the craftsmen of Zella Sankt Blasii & Mehlis. It has a side frame reinforced receiver and lower scears. First the monthly ledger number just below the proof date gives it away as does the script Nitro stamp(post Sept. 1st, 1911 in Z-M) on each side of the tubes. So, the twin tubeset longarm was made by a Zella-Mehlis craftsmen. Then there's the "K". Single letters are very difficult to assign or attribute and most have sworn off attaching initials or marks to individual mechanics as there just isn't much recorded information and the effort is purely speculative. But Karl, Kehl, Kirchner, Klett, Kommer, K÷nig are just a few of the last names of the laundry list of potential choices. But I would guess the single "K" to note an effort by a Z-M barrel knitter and 1st to mind would be Edmund Keller. He may have also performed the final effort, inside & out, on the tubeset. But the "S" in the Chevron is the mark of a Schilling forge and directs compensation, and liability, their way. I'll look for similar Z-M boxlocks,and Axel E. might know right off, but my 1st guess for an all inclusive facility, would be that it could have originated at the firm Heinrich Christoph Klett & Sohne. With them, all tasks could have been performed inhouse as they were into tubes and could also account for the single "K". Any marks on the standing breech? Somewhere there are a few clues that will give up the craftsman. Any additional marks on the other set of tubes?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

PL #230117 05/28/11 07:04 AM
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Here's a recent thread with those menacing "K"s on the lower rib and forend hanger on an overhanging scear type boxlock:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post186289

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr #230154 05/28/11 01:09 PM
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Thank you again Raimey, wonderful information! There are no marks on the breech face. The only other information that I have is that the gun was imported by Joe Singer of Los Angeles Ca. This is inscribed on the top of each barrel set. The 12 gauge barrels are 32" and the 16 gauge barrels are 28". It is a nice gun and I really appreciate now knowing where it was made.

Patrick

PL #230158 05/28/11 01:49 PM
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the acorns look to be a different colored... are they an embossed separate metal? Interesting for sure. Pretty gun. What does it weight with each set of barrels?


Andrew
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