doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Francotte Double Rifle Info, Please

I have in the shop a rather nice Francotte .405 DR (#2103). From Pete's excellent web site I THINK I've determined it was made after 1924 (intertwined EL) maybe 1925 (cursive D).
What I'd like to learn about is relative grade? and any other info.

Quite a bit of graffiti on the brl flats, more than I expected, but some of you might find the hawks head(?). b.blindee, crown over JF or * over P informative?
And any sources for your info?
Thanks, Steve

I had thought that the chicken hawk was that of Joseph Cap and PeteM may have corrupted me. But it and the "Crown" over "JF" is for Jean Falla and like the recent 1970s AF, Falla was sourced for the tube set or maybe the whole monte. See PeteM's nifty find lower on the page here: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=222318&page=5

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

http://damascus-barrels.com/bp.html

a great source

Steve, B. Blindee is for steel jacketed bullet.

Thanks Raimey, Randall and Daryl.
Raimey, Same Hawk head mark on of my of my Belgian brld actions.
Randall, that's Pete's excellent site
I was sure Bob Blindee was the near-sighted engraver!!!

Anyone?

Steve, you might want to post it on Nitro Express forum, there are chaps in Europe who will know more, best, Mike

Lower cased d is the year code for 1925. The star over P is the controller of proof, however the records are incomplete for 1925.

Crown over R indicates rifled barrels. It was used from Jan 30, 1894 to Feb 26, 1968

10.1 is bore diameter ( I believe that is grove) which would be .39 caliber. This was done in .1 millimeter steps by this time.

B. Blindee used from July 8, 1910 to Feb 26, 1968; denotes rifled barrels over 22 caliber with bullets wearing a vest (chemise) aka jacketed bullets. Nothing about the type of jacket. The reverse of this is B.Plomb (lead bullets only).

At the time of proof the barrels weighed 1.716 kgs or 3.783 lbs.

The tubes were made by Jean Falla, his marks on this gun are; "Acier Compound CAP" also the squawking chicken, um screaming eagle, and Crown over JF.

The Crown over AF in a circle is Francotte.

Lion over PV is nitro proof.

I remember seeing the proof loads for rifles, but can't seem to find them at the moment. I do know that by 1921 the proof house was testing commercial ammunition in Belgium.

Sorry, Steve for not posting sooner. I am working on proof marks for other countries. Also converting a list of patents.

Pete

That's fascinating info Pete - thank you for posting.

SDH-MT - If Bob Beach chimes in, I'm sure he can tell you exactly when gun was manufactured, where it was sold, etc.
Serial # 2403 would make it 1928 per this 'shotgun' page:

http://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos2.htm

Pete, I am sure you are right on the B. Blindee being only jacketed bullet and not necessarily a "steel" jacketed bullet. I went from memory on what I found about a double rifle from Belgium I owned a decade ago. Your explanation is quite good.

Steve from a 1930 marked Francotte catalog, Francotte offers Petit [I assume small or light] caliber rifles with Anson and Deely three lock actions in 22 HKP, 8x57, 8x60. 9x57, 9.3x74, 10.75x52, 405 Winch., 35 Winchester on 450. The lowest grade in the catalog is very similar to what you are picturing, including top rib extension, light engraving, not drop points, sights to one hundred and two hundred meters. Extra engraving to order.

Next offered were rifles of "gros calibre". A lot of calibers, but include 275 Flanged Magnum, 375 flanged magnum, 475 No. 2 Nitro express, 450 Nitro Express, and 600 Nitro Express. These rifles show up as finely engraved boxlocks with drop points, and sidelock double rifles , highly engraved, hidden third fasteners, in at least two qualities , one of which is described as having Purdey style locks. There are a variety of exterior hammer double rifles, too.

Daryl & Randall,

Thanks...

I have been burned recently by quoting from some sources, especially regarding proof information. I have 4 sources for the Belgian marks and even they do not agree on every facet. Perhaps I got this one correct?

So little of the bullet proofs marks on guns that show up here. I did not include them in the website list, just as I did not include the military marks.

I could see some one writing steel jackets. The only way I know of the Beglian use of "chemise" in the gun trade is because they use it when talking about making damascus. The best translation for that period is "under shirt" (Larry, Ted jump in here). Which does not exactly describe a jacket on a bullet does it? The better description might be manteau.

Pete