doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Insuring barrels

It has been my habit, when shipping barrels for repair, to insure the barrel for the total value of the gun on the basis that the barrels would not be replaceable and the gun remaining would be worthless without the barrels. Most recent example: paid $900 for the gun, insured the barrels for $900. This insurance cost about $4.00. If lost, would I have any chance of GETTING $900 from the carrier? I'd be interested in what the group thinks, how you do it and especially in actual first-hand experiences after a loss.
TIA

Chances are you are not going to get full value unless you can prove total destruction. The burden of proof will be yours. Typically the carrier would offer less than half for the amount. You will have to have some legitimate document showing replacement cost. You would probably show the cost of having a new set made and the issue would be depreciated value. I would continue to insure for full value as you are doing because the cost is so little. Biggest problem? You are a small fish and USPS, UPS, FedEx have more lawyers than the Justice Department. However, under $1000 will usually get paid in a year with some legitimate docs. It is a pain!

Jim

I do the same with the same logic. It seems to me if I insure it then it's insured. Why should it matter what damage occurs? If the barrels are lost or unusable so is the gun. Isn't the insurance a contract stating for a certain sum, paid in advance, the loss will be made whole?
Fortunately, I've never had a claim but I pack guns and barrels anticipating the worst treatment. Loss is the scary one.

I think your best bet of getting money is to ship with the USPS. UPS is almost impossible, with FedX only slightly better. DHL is better than the other 2. But USPS is the best I have found at shipping things anywhere in the world and having a good chance of it actually arriving, being on time, and being in pretty much the same condition as when you shipped it. The people I deal with at the USPS are overwhelmingly nicer, more friendly, and more knowledgable than represntatives at the other 3 shippers.

Will they give you full value? Maybe. Depends on how over the top they think it is. Very hard to make a blanket statement.

Chance of FedX or UPS giving you full price for just the barrels? From everything I have experienced in life I would say you have a solid 0% chance of getting full price. Even when they destroy entire guns they do not pay full price.

The best insurance you can get is a $10 hard plastic case with foam padding. Then wrap the barrels in bubble wrap or more egshell padding. IF the carrier destroys the barrels after all that, I think THEY'D have a hard time denying the claim.

I sent a 20 gauge Model 21 to Simmons about five years ago to have it reblued and gone through. I paid $2800.00 for the gun. My dealer is a big Winchester-Model 12, Model 21, Herb Orre fan so he knew what the gun was worth. He told me right off that he would insure it for $5000.00 and I said fine and paid the insurance on it. I never had any problems....... The thing that gets me about insurance when you ship a gun is that if you want $100,000.00 insurance on a family heirloom that is only worth $1000.00--if you pay for that much insurance and they lose the gun, they should have to pay you the $100,000.00 You paid for that much insurance. It meant that much to you. You had a contract. They shouldn't be allowed to come back after they were negligent and say that the gun wasn't worth that much. Who cares? How do they put a value on someone's life when the guy want a life insurance policy? Oh, this guy had a $1,000,000.00 life insurance policy but when he died he was homeless so he wasn't worth that much and we can only pay two dollars on his policy? Uh, don't think so.

as far as making sure barrels arrive safely the best bet would be put them in a PVC tube (caps on each end and wraped with bubble wrap inside),then place them in a boox with mpre bubble warp. Send them USPS registered mail.A bit slower as every one who touchs it has to sign for it but it will ariive.
As far as collecting on insurance form UPS -forget it,unless you are a lawyer with free time you don't stand a chance.Fed Ex is slightly better but both have thieves as employees and putting a high $$ insurance on it just makes it a target for them.
Best bet is USPS anyone can ship barrels (or long guns for that matter as long as its to a FFL) there.

If the value is lost if the barrels are lost, why not ship the whole gun and then it's not contestable by the shipper if it's all lost. BTW, I collected on a UPS damage claim to a K80 forearm within 3-4 weeks of the damage.

Typically it is easier to collect on a damage claim because it is visible and very hard to contest in a court. Losses take longer because there is no "body of evidence" thus a greater burden on the insured.

Jim

Read this carefully boys, it's from UPS shipping regs, available online. UPS is not liable for more than $100 on any shipment REGARDLESS of whether Excess Valuation Insurance is purchased. It seems that when you purchase extra insurance it comes from a third party independant insurer.

" 17 537 EXCESS VALUE INSURANCE UPS’s maximum liability per domestic package or international shipment, regardless of the purchase of Excess Value Insurance for protection in excess of $100, shall not exceed the lesser of: (1) $100, (2) the lesser of the purchase price paid by the consignee (where the property involved has been sold to the consignee), the actual cost, or the replacement cost of the property at the time and place of loss or damage, or (3) the cost of repair of damaged property. If protection in excess of $100 is desired, insurance may be purchased from an independent insurer by showing a value in excess of $100 in the insured value field of the UPS shipping system used by the shipper. The insurance company’s premium charge for such Excess Value Insurance is available at each local UPS office. An insurance premium will be assessed for each additional $100 or fraction thereof of insured value specified in the UPS shipping system used in excess of $100 up to the Limits of Insurance, and the shipper will be automatically covered as an additional insured under a shipper’s interest insurance policy, provided the additional charge is paid by or on behalf of the shipper. Insurance is not provided for Prepaid Letters. The purchase of insurance is optional. The Excess Value Insurance policy covers a shipper for loss or damage to property tendered in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Tariff and the applicable UPS Service Guides from all risks of physical loss or damage from any cause, subject to the exclusions specified in the Excess Value Insurance policy (and as described herein), from the time of tender to UPS and continuously thereafter during the course of transportation by UPS between locations which UPS serves. UPS’s acceptance for carriage of a package for shipment bearing an insured value in excess of the applicable maximum insured value, or of any package that UPS does not accept for transportation or that shippers are prohibited from shipping, does not constitute a waiver of the terms of the Excess Value Insurance policy and no protection will be provided under the Excess Value Insurance policy for any such packages. The Excess Value Insurance does not provide any insurance protection for packages having an actual value of more than $50,000 even if a lesser amount is specified in the insured value field in the UPS shipping system used. The Excess Value Insurance policy does not cover or excludes coverage for: articles of unusual value (as defined in Item 460); Prepaid Letters; checks, phone cards, gift certificates, or gift cards; perishable commodities or commodities requiring protection from heat or cold; human remains, fetal remains, human body parts, or components thereof; loss or damage due to war risks (as set forth in the war risk exclusion clause in the Excess Value Insurance policy), nuclear damage, insects, moths, vermin, inherent vice (including, but not limited to, improper, inadequate, or unsafe packaging or wrapping that fails to meet UPS’s published standards related thereto set forth in this Tariff or elsewhere), deterioration, dampness of atmosphere, extreme of temperature, ordinary wear and tear, or that which occurred or arose prior to or after the course of transportation by UPS; loss of or damage to any article which shippers are prohibited from shipping, which UPS is not authorized to accept, which UPS states that it will not accept, or which UPS has a right to refuse; damages arising from UPS’s inability, failure or refusal to comply with a request to stop, return, or reroute shipment of a package after tender to UPS; and special, incidental, or consequential damages. Additionally, the insurance policy excludes and does not provide coverage for any damages related to providing, or the failure to provide, C.O.D. service, including but not limited to: failure to collect the C.O.D. amount; failure to collect the specified form of payment; collection of an instrument in the wrong amount; failure or delay in delivering the collected instrument to the shipper; or collection of forged, insufficient funds, or otherwise invalid instruments. The Excess Value Insurance policy provides that the insurer’s maximum liability is the lowest of: (1) the insured value indicated in the UPS shipping system used minus $100; (2) the lesser of the purchase price paid by the consignee (where the property involved has been sold to the consignee), the actual cost, or the replacement cost of the property insured at the time and place of loss or damage minus $100; (3) the cost of repair of damaged property minus $100; (4) $50,000 per package minus $100, except for (i) packages shipped via a UPS Drop Box, in which case the maximum liability is $500 per package minus $100, (ii) packages shipped as the result of a request for service made through the Internet by a shipper who has a UPS Internet shipping account only, in which case the maximum liability is $5000 minus $100, and (iii) packages returned via UPS Print Return Label, UPS Print and Mail Return Label, Electronic Return Label, or 1 UPS Pickup Attempt Return Services, in which case the maximum liability is $1,000 minus $100; (5) $500 for international jewelry (not including costume jewelry) shipments minus $100, or (6) $999 minus $100 per package when Shipper Release is selected.. For more information on the terms and conditions of this insurance, call UPS Capital Insurance Agency, Inc., at 1-877-242-7930 to obtain an Excess Value Insurance brochure or a copy of the insurance policy currently in effect, or write to UPS Capital Insurance Agency, Inc., 35 Glenlake Parkway, N.E., Atlanta, Georgia 30328. UPS’s maximum liability per domestic package or international shipment shall not exceed $100, regardless of the purchase of insurance for protection in excess of $100."


I used to think if UPS lost my gun I could sue them in small claims court for up to $3500 since they do business in almost every county. Not so. I'd have to go after the "third party" and who knows where that is.

I will never ship anything valuable by UPS again.

OTOH I always use the USPS, they have lost or damaged a couple of items and I had my money within a month.