doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What do you think of this $300 Lefever?

Jack;
I was not saying the two-hook configuration made it a lot more valuable in its present condition. I was merely pointing out what it was. There were a lot less of them made than the later large hook guns, but don't know they bring a lot higher prices because of it. I suspect the GH was a little Parker terminology slipped in though Lefever to my knowledge never added the H to their hammerless line. To the best of my knowledge they never actually built hammer & hammerless models simultaneously as did many of the other other makers, including Parker.
RyanF did ask about it as a project gun, as best as I could tell from the pics it looks sound. Maybe there is one out there somewhere cheaper. This one is available right now at that price. How much time, gasoline, etc will he have to spend finding that absolute bottom dollar one. This one doesn't appear to me to be priced unreasonable, they are beginning to be more sought out. I don't personally see how he could go far wrong.
I once bought a parts, not a project, H grade for $25.00, but that was a long time back. Today I see parts listed that bring more than I paid for the whole thing then.

Jon;
Did those I grades have damascus or twist bbls?. I have not personally seen one, but have heard of a few with the twist bbls ALA the H grade, but never one with damascus. At least part of these also had cocking indicators & a Doll's Head.
I don't really know if they were early preproduction models or late ones assembled at Ithaca, using up parts. I seem to recall though that a least one or two of them had high SN's which would tend to indicate the later.
I do have a very high numbered gun which is marked H, has indicators, Doll's Head & twist bbls, but seems to have DS wood. It lacks a metal tip or escutcheon in the forend & has the uncapped half grip like a DS on the stock.
PS; This one does have the late type H scroll on the sideplates & carries the 1907 patent date. As the DS/I was indroduced about 1901 anyone carrying an '07 patent would not be a real early one. If you see another one see if it has that date in the patent list.

I know of one I grade for certain that had damascus barrels and think there was a second. Too many miles and too many gun shows. I have also encountered one or maybe two that had twist barrels but have seen several on the internet. I figured that they were early production guns as a rule but who knows.

One other DS grade gun that I came across must have been an employee special. Stamped DS on the water table. It had Krupp steel barrels, cocking indicators, dolls head and the wood would have been home on a optimums grade gun. It was not for sale and the owner died a few years later. I offered him two plus grand for the gun 20+ years ago. Would have gone higher but did not want to make him mad, hoping he might sell it to me later. It was that nice looking of a gun. I have often thought about that gun and where it ended up. It most likely became one of the many "up graded" guns that are floating around as a higher grade gun.

If I had bought every "odd' or "unique" Lefever that I have come across I bet I would have a hundred different guns. Some features would be minor differences and others extreme. That is what sets Lefevers apart from the rest. He started so early and changed as production went, so his guns were a gradual progression with no clear sharp demarcation of features or mechanism. On top of that are the many guns built out of order or with features that had been discontinued. It is like his entire production was one long experiment of trying things and adjusting how thing worked. Funny thing is that just about all that he tried worked and has last more than a hundred years. That keeps me looking at any Lefever I come across at a gun show because you never know what you will find and learn. Maybe I find that employee special or some other one.

Well said Jon. Just wanted to ascertain you were using the term damascus in the true sense & not generically to include twist. Coming from you I suspected that was the case, but wanted to confirm.
This is purely a wild guess, but I suspect those having true damascus were parts utilization. It is f course also quite possible as they were preparing to introduse the grade wome were made up with bbls at hand & may have been either twist or damascus. Perhaps they used up some with some type of "Appearence Blemish" but were otherwise sound bbls.

Buy the Lefever Pete just listed for $400 on guns for sale section.Sounds like a bargain! Bobby

I too noticed this gun when it was posted at $400. At $300, you can't go wrong.

Regarding the I grade referenced above, it did look like an H or higher due to the cocking indicators. If it has damascus barrels (not twist) and cocking indicators, how would it be any different than a G grade aside from the line border engraving?

I have talked with the Crosnoes from time to time at the Louisville gun show and they have always seemed pretty honest dealers to do business with.

Mark

If it is a I grade it should not have the dolls head rib extension. It would be straight instead. But other than that it would be as you describe.

2-piper

I never thought about DS / I grades being a gun to use up possible cosmetic problem barrels, but you may be right. Lefever used up old parts all the time. I suspect because they always were hard up for materials, parts and money. This may be why we find guns built out of order or with mixed features. I did had a gunsmith tell me he was reblueing a Lefever once and found it had one steel barrel and one damascus barrel. I guess when finished they would be hard to tell from two steel barrels. These days I have to buy the gun just for fun.

From what I have seen and heard it looks like less than 1% of the DS/I grades had twist or damascus barrels. So is it a clean out the bin gun, a early gun made when steel barrels had not been ordered and/or come in, or just a gun cobbled up from parts on hand to get out the door and bring in a little money. Who knows. They are still a lot of fun because Lefevers are like a box of chocolates. You never know what they are getting until you look them over. How dull would they be if they were like Sterlingworths where they were all the same with only minor differences in a few of them.

I have picked up several DS guns for future project guns. They do not command great prices and all I have are steel barrels with more modern stock drop. Some even have more engraving than the early G grades. Funny thing about Lefevers is that as time went by they increased in engraving instead of decreasing like other makers to cut cost.

Jon;
If you compare Lefever catalogs with those of other Co's you will see that list prices on Lefevers stayed constant, during periods when other Co's were dropping them for a given grade. In pre-LAC catalogs an E grade hammer was listed @ $100.00. In the last LAC catalog published an E extractor hammerless was listed @ $100.00. Seems as competion arose, they up-graded the grades rather than lowering price & would than as need dictated add a lower grade with a lower price to take the place of the older one.

The I grade was a G grade damascus barrel 30 F&F. Bores are in excellent condition, wood is sound with normal scratches and dings. 38xxx serial number.

The G was as advertised but in better condition than I expected. Two hook, 16xxx serial number, push button forend release. The wood is about the same on both guns, has some oil in the wood on this one.

Retiring in a couple yrs, have a few projects in front of me.

Benny