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Recently saw this 16b Chas F Wiebusch hammergun with Birmingham proofs. Anyone have any information on this maker? Thanks Jeff

Hmmm.. No Charles Wiebusch listed in Boothroyd's Directory or Nigel Brown Vol.2.

Very strange!! For starters, I've never seen two different charges engraved on the barrels of a shotgun like that.
...and those charges and shot-loads are pretty stiff for a 16-bore (17-bore actually!). Please tell me that second charge is not "5 1/2 drms and 1 7/8 oz shot" !!

Marrakai,

Thanks for checking Nigel Brown's reference.

Actually the charges are even more unusual....

left barrel: "first charge
12 drams
shot 1 1/4oz"

right barrel: "second charge
6 1/2drams
shot 1 7/8"

Can't imagine how they stuffed all that in a 16b shell!
The gun is still tight and on face.
Guess those damascus barrels are fairly strong!

Over on the Shooting Sportsman BBS a Mr Baines has the info and just happens to be going by the Birmingham Proof House on 1/11. Will be interesting to see what he thinks.

Jeff

I know nothing about the maker but I can see it's a well made gun. I think you're jumping to the wrong convulsion about the loads listed in the annoying novel of printing on the barrels. Looks like a darn Ruger with all that BS on the barrels. It appears to me that they are giving you the "proof" loads that go along with "This gun has been tested twice". I can't imagine that they are recommended loads for normal use in the field.

Jim: Yes, of course! Proof loads.

Never seen that before either!

According to A Baron Englehardt, charts in his gun digest article on proof 1887 proof rules for the 2½" 16ga called for 10 3/4 drams powder under a 399 grain round ball for provisonal proof, 5½ drams powder under 1 1/3oz shot for definitive proof & the service load was 2 3/4 drams powder under 1oz shot. By 1925 this was changed to 8¼ drams with 1oz shot for provisional, 5 3/8drams & 1½oz shot for definitive with the service load the same. These were of course for the Black Powder proofs. For the service load it was noted "Black powder or equivalent in smokeless".
These proof charges would seem to exceed the normal, perhaps some type of "Enhanced" proof of which the maker was proud & had it stamped on the bbls.

Miller is correct. This thing is way beyond any proof levels that are normal. If these marks indicate final proof. I wouldn't want to shoulder with those levels loaded. There was a Wiebusch and Hilger Company in New York. Not sure that this gun has anything to do with them.

Pete

The only Charles F. Wiebusch I can find in the US was in New York City in 1910 and listed as a merchant. May have been the Wiebusch of Wiebusch & Hilger Company mentioned. A Google search of Wiebusch & Hilger Company shows that they did sell (Import) firearms. I could speculate that that the name was used in the same way “Charles Daly” was, pure speculation on my part.

I have a shotgun of simular age, and I think the name on the gun was an Ironmonger. I guess that they had the guns built by a firm and then put their name on them. jas