doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com My 1938 Greifelt Stalking Rifle

T/C had a good try at it with the T/C '83, and they didn't even come close to this quality, nor did they capture much of a market. To be fair, there ISN'T much of a market for guns like this in the US, and probably wasn't any mass market in Europe either. A gun for the elite, and I don't mean that in the usual polically correct negative sense.

I personally found the T/C '83 "felt wierd." Loved the concept but kinda hated the gun itself. Prefer the Savage 219, however badly finished and plebian it may be. A rifle that "feels like a shotgun" is a GOOD thing....NOT vice versa, tho.

How about a 1936 Greifeldt stalking in 5.6X52R proofed in Suhl that M4 regrets passing over:

I can't makes heads or tails of the E.R. Schaaf "Urerahausen" - city???




Interesting that it wears the same mechanic/subcontractor script L(some may think Z???).

With only 2 datapoints does that mean that Greifeldt produced 300 per year? I would think their production numbers were a multiple of that.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

1936 Greifeldt stalker.




1938 Greifeldt stakler compared to show the script "L"(Z)??? I've seen the L on a few other examples.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

May I draw your attention to the fact that that mysterious letter also appears on the 1940-1945 German made barrel of my "Lovena" double rifle drilling? http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=213319#Post213319
Though admittedly this letter somehow resembles the "L" used for the British pound sterling, as a German I read a "Z" almost instinctively.

The retailer of this gun is Ernst Richard Schaaf, Friedrich-Karl-Str.40, Oberhausen, founded 1894, documented 1920, 1925, 1945+ (thanks Flintenkalle's directory), a typical country gunmaker,dealer in arms, ammo and hunting equipment. Oberhausen is a city in the Ruhr area agglomeration, between Essen and Duisburg.

Strikingly attractive rifle. I'm envious.

Out of curiosity, how does it shoot?

There was a recent Handloader Magazine article about the .22 Highpower that came right out and said it's a very difficult cartridge to make shoot accurately. Ken Waters, in his Pet Loads articles, said the same thing.

Both were working with Savage Model 99s, but I don't think the rifle design was the problem, as I own a 99 in .300 Savage that is a quite satisfactory performer from an accuracy standpoint.

Lovely Lovena: thanks for calling my attention to the mark. Think Greifeldt was sourced for the drilling in the white in the early 1940s?


Lovena


1938 Greifeldt
Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

And a big thanks to Shotgun-Charlie for the Ernst Richard Schaaf info as well as maintaining it. Hopefully he'll have a publication some day, maybe in the King's English?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Kurt has run across a Carl Stiegele and I thought I'd add a little info I've gleaned to this thread.


Carl Stiegele example


Karl Stiegele Hof-B�chsenmacher M�nchen
http://s1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii49...NWEHR%20FABRIK/



F.W. Ke�ler example


This examples doesn't have a FWK monogram I can find but it too is a copy with dual serial numbers on the water table. I think it might be a bit similar to M-4's H. Scherping Hannover
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=282171&page=1


A V. H�fner hammergun of Ke�ler with the 1/2 moon side frame reinforcement, which is a tell tale sign of a F. W. Ke�ler. It has V. H�fner on one tube and F.W. Ke�ler on the other.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post241471

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A bit of info I've gleaned on the Karl Stiegele concern:


Sources give that there was a Stiegele active in the guntrade from 1793 forward. Karl Stiegele has its roots in Ingolstadt where Karl Stiegele senior hung out his gunmaking shingle there in 1837(some sources give 1835) and due to demand in 1852 he moved to M�nchen where the power of the Isar River was harnessed to drive the machinery where some 20 � 25 craftsmen were employed by the mid 1860s. I've read a few posts that give that there was an 1813 opening date in Dillingen an der Donau and there were 3 generations but the numbers just don't add up for that and there must have been at least 4 generations. From addresses and listings it would appear that they lived as well as had a retail outlet at Kn�belstra�se 13, probably typical 3 story building, and had a bullet factory at Maximilianstra�e #4c(also #4) and later they were at Maximilianstra�e #33. Bullets were for the most part the name of the game and daily production in the 1860s ranged from 60k to 70,000 per day in all shapes and calibres. Adverts and articles suggest that by the late 1850s Karl Stiegele Seiner/Senior was winding down his career as a B�chsenmacher and preparing to hand the torch to Karl Stiegele Junior. Can't pin it down for sure but circa 1864 seems to be the time when Karl Stiegele Junior attained the rank of master gunsmith. Little did he know that his grandson was going to deplete the family coffers and run the business in the ground in the process. Also the year 1863, possibly early1864, held some down times for Karl Stiegele Junior as he had some affliction or serious illness and a visit to a spa, possibly Hotel Guttenberg of Strasbourg France?, evidently aided in his recovery; therefore, for the rest of his life he would make the annual pilgrimage for some 50 years till 1913, a date I surmise he expired. In December of 1864 articles suggest that Karl Stiegele Senior at Kn�belstra�se 13/1 migrated to the status of a private citizen and was either appointed or elected as councilman or head of the governing body for the 39th City District of M�nchen by the mayor. So with your father on the City Council of M�nchen it would seem quite easy to be sourced for sporting weapons for the court of kings on the continent as well as those of foreign governments. Karl Stiegele Junior was a contemporary of Valentin Grei� as well as Johann M�ller(J. Miller), owner of the firm Baader und Sohn Hofb�chsenmacher at Briennenstra�e 10 by the late 1860s. Info suggest that he acquired his royal appointment/warrant in February/March of 1866 and by 1868 Karl Stiegele Junior was advertising as k�nglich Hof-Gewehrfabrikant but me thinks he was more of a Gescho�fabrikant or bullet designer/maker like that of Wilhelm Brenneke. This sourcing of the court elevated his wife and any daughters to hop-knob with the elite, opening opportunities I'm sure. It allowed he & his family to have psuedo court status. A little later his was dubbed with the honouary title of Kommerzienrat, which was used up till the end of WWI and possibly into the mid 1920s in Bavarian areas. It noted a very successful merchant who added to the country as a whole.


1868 Advert - It appears that Karl Stiegele Junior acquired the royal warrant/court advertising title and not his father?


I think this is a circa 1907 photo and it is from a 1907 article. By this time he should have turned over the reins of the company to his depraved son and Kommerzienrat Karl Stiegele Junior may have expired some 6 years later.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse