doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hunt or hang it?

Previously,about a year ago,I posted for information on Scottish gunmaker; Alexander Thomson (Gunmaker to King George the IV). I just acquired said gun in question and now want to know what to do with it. This is an absolutely beautiful Damascus barreled muzzle loader, appx. 14 ga, higly engraved with a lovely figured stock. It is light (6-1/2#), well balanced, lively and fits me perfectly and would like to hunt Grouse with it. The gun has been carried, Damascus pattern has some wear at the carry point, and appears to have had minimal firing. My main concern is the barrel thickness, both the same, about .033" thick at the muzzles. They appear to be thinner than today's steel barrels. Bores measure 0.688", a little less than standard 14ga, would 14 ga wads work? Do I hunt it or hang it?

Wall thickness at the muzzles is not as important from a safety standpoint as wall thickness at 3", 6", and 9" from the breech. Those measurements should be taken by someone who knows their business. Get a small penlight and slide it down the barrel so you can check for pits, if there are any. (You may have already done this.) If it's a 14 gauge use 13 gauge wads. I always bump up a notch with a ML. Is it a percussion or flint?

Have the bores checked by a gunsmith knowledgeable about muzzle loaders. Most are not, today, but some are. Bore mirrors are required to look for pitting, etc., because you can't open the breech without unscrewing the breechplugs, which I wouldn't do just for inspection of the barrels. Have the minimum wall thickness determined by him or someone else with a quality wall thickness gauge. If all checks out O.K., SHOOT IT!! I hunt with original m/l doubleguns and have no more concern about their safety than I would any modern gun that had not been checked out.

If you determine it's safe to shoot, post back and several members on here can help you with load information, and where to acquire what you need.

Never hunted grouse, but from what I read and hear the guns are very similar to those needed for quail down heah'. It ought to make a fine close bird gun. It has no choke most likely, unless by some rare chance someone jug choked it.

All my best, Stan

I had a Manton 10/9 bore ML, it had been honed out perhaps several times and was very thin by the muzzels. I shot it with 3 dram/1.125 ounce 12 gauge loads (and "safety tested" both barrels with a 6 dram load in each barrel) and it did just fine. If it's a percussion gun it should work great on grouse, if a flintlock not so good. I say this because of the lag time between pulling the trigger and the gun going bang.
Steve

Gun is percussion. As near as I can see without a bore scope or the like but with a pencil Maglite from muzzle to and including the breech face both barrels look like chrome plating today, mirror bright and smooth. As near as I can measure with "mics" the left barrel is the thinnest measuring .030, .032 and .034 at 3", 6" and 9" respectively. What is a safe limit?

The above is from 1891. There is no "safe limit" with a 100+ year old gun whether fluid or damascus.

It is a matter of not taking excessive chances. From the measurements you give, it "sounds" ok. However, I would never shoot max loads black powder or nitro in a gun this old. Follow Rockdoc's recommendation.

Post some photo's when you can.







Pete

.03" does NOT seem likely to be "OK" to me at 3" from the breech...unless he is your brother-in-law.....

Not really familiar with ML but even the chart would seem to indicate very bad situation?

Best,
Mark

You can buy a borelight that drops inside the bore, uses a tiny battery, if you need further inspection. It sounds good, but a gunsmith with the proper tools would be able to measure wall thickness.

I'm not advising you to do this, but it it was mine, I'd stoke it and shoot it with BP. Work up a load for it and give it a try.

Get a copy of the Dixie Gunworks catalogue, not only will it give you access to parts but it has a huge reference section that gives recommended loads etc.
Steve
BTW 16 gauge is as close as Dixie it gets.
Heavy 3 1/8 drams BP - 1 1/8 ounces shot
Medium 3 drams BP - 1 ounce shot
Light 2 1/2 drams BP - 1 ounce shot

His .03 must mean 3 inches from the muzzle. That's not bad as far as thickness goes (way out there).