doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Starting a new shooter

I had a shooting lesson with a young lady who had very little experience with wingshooting this week. It set me thinking about the proper order to start a new shooter off on the right foot. I’m working on a story on the subject. Any comments or suggestions?
1. Check for dominant eye
2. Build the shooters gun mount
3. Using a mirror, check gun fit
4. Explain the importance and demonstrate proper stance
5. Fire POA shots on a board to see if the shooter has a concept of pointing
6. For first shots on a flying target, chose an easy going away target with a long hang time before the target begins to fall
As the shooter begins to shoot at his first targets:
7. Explain how a broad awareness of the area the target will appear in shifts to tight focus on the target when it appears.
8. Explain that the focus should be on the target with the barrels in peripheral
9. Explain the concept of follow through
10. Explain the fundamentals of lead and how to begin to estimate it
11. Begin moving the shooter further (right and left) from the trap to demonstrate changes in lead.
12. I try to end the session with a series of confidence building targets and try to let the last target be a broken target.

What was the young lady shooting?

She was shooting a rental gun that belonged to Beaver Pond. It was a Browning Light Citori 20 gauge. She picked it over an 870 youth and a 20 gauge 101 during our "fitting" session.

Recoil was a bit of a problem for her, she was very small, and I switched her over to a trainer load when I asked of recoil was bothering her.

I find with youth and small women,the muzzle weight of a gun can be a big issue.

In my very humble opinion the lesson of focusing on the target is paramount. If I were starting a new shooter I would try a gun without a bead. It seems to me that in many aspects of attempting to get a new shooter to hold the gun correctly, mount it and determine the fit the emphasis becomes that darn bead. Afterward they can't stop looking at it. The target and the space around it should be the focus.

I think that all the mechanics you enumerated are essential eventually. However, I like to build enthusiasm with participation and find long discussions of the mechanics are meaningless and not absorbed until after the shooter has some experience with shooting. They aren't hearing because they are either anticipating the shooting or overly anxious about it; or they lack the perspective to understand how to apply it. So aside from a brief safety discussion I like to get the shooter on station 7 of a skeet field or as close a representation of a high house incomer to station 7 as I can. The high house bird gives them time to see the bird and move the gun. After the first shots I can work in instruction about focusing on the bird and keeping the gun moving until they find success. Usually takes about 3-5 shots. I also like the high house better than the outgoing station 7 low house bird as it has less of a surprise to the launch and instills gun movement early. Once they have success and repeated it that is enough because they are tired of holding up the gun. Take a break and discuss what they have learned, add in a few more bits of mechanics. They may go back for another short session but don't go too many shots as this is intense and tiring for them.

Regardless the size of the shooter, I like to use very light 20ga loads as recoil is always a factor for new shooters. Handloads of 3/4oz and velocities around 1050 to 1100 fps are great for this. Even if it is an adult shooter on a 12ga, I use light loads (7/8oz and low velocity).

Dick Jones observation about smaller shooters having issues with muzzle heavy guns is interesting in that they will adopt a reverse C posture with weight mostly on the back leg to bring the muzzle upward. Yet a couple days later will be able to assume a proper weight forward stance. I haven't fully solved this puzzle yet, but I think the issue is largely a psycological effort to retreat from the gun (assuming the stock is a reasonable fit to begin with.) I adjust the stance on the station and even provide physical support for the fore elbow and upper back if necessary until a couple shots have been fired. Usually seems to be self adjusting after that. I like to have them observe an experienced female shooter during the break too.

I had to edit this because I had assumed your student had zero experience and that wasn't what you said in the question. Sorry, my comments apply to how I manage first time shooters.

Sounds like you have a good plan for beginners.
At our club, a member bent a stock for the ladies (girls as well) with cast on. We use a handful of H&R single shot 28's.
It was a $20.00 stock change, that really helps with getting the girls on target. Occassional boy too, which is why it wasn't painted.
It's a handy gun to have in the vault. It's clearly marked in yellow.

Lots of good ideas above. My only comment would be that major emphasis about basic gun safety should be number 1.

I agree about getting the shooter to break a target or two right off the bat. This normally happens with people with some shooting experience but it’s been my experience that someone who’s never shouldered a gun (or shot very little) doesn’t intuitively know how to look down the barrel.

The first four steps take about ten or twelve minutes. These are very rudimentary checks to make sure:

1. The shooter is not cross eye dominant, (remarkably common these days)
2. The gun can be held comfortably by the shooter
3. The shooter is leaning into the gun instead of adopting the classic offhand rifle shooter stance
4. The shooter’s head is positioned so the gun will shoot where they look.

In the case of Cassandra, my student on Saturday, her original head position would have kept her from hitting a target at all had I not corrected it. Her eye was completely out of alignment with the rib by at least an inch in both vertical and horizontal. Looking down the barrel (not recommended to show this to a new shooter after just telling them to never point a gun at something they don’t mind shooting) is the only way I know to ascertain if their head is in the right place. This is why I have a mirror on a post at the 5 Stand. I can have them point at my right eye in the mirror and I can see right down the rib to the shooters eye.

The gun weight is a huge issue with small women and kids. I have the shooter rest the gun on the rail between shots and hold it for them when we are talking. To a hundred pound woman, a six pound gun feels like a 10 pound gun to a 180 pound man. Add that to the fact they aren’t used to holding something in that position and the weight becomes a big thing. Some kids I’ve taught weighed less than 70 pounds.

My wife, Cherie is a strong girl and she doesn’t like guns over seven pounds. By the way, when Cherie teaches, she tells women to stick their butts out and smacks them on the butt when they revert to leaning back.

I think the ideal arrangement, as strange as it sounds is to start shooters who have little upper body strength with a butt heavy gun. It takes the strain off their left arm and the weight in the butt helps to absorb some of the recoil. Weight behind the center of the mass makes the front feel lighter. While experienced shooters need the weight to keep the gun moving smoothly, beginners have trouble getting the gun to move at all.

What you need to start out with isn’t what you need later especially if you don’t have much strength.
The idea of the cast on stock is a good one. I find that most women need a greater amount of drop at the heel as well or, at least, for the toe to be lower. Women seem to need to have the butt higher in their shoulders in my experience.

Jim,
The safety instruction is a given and happens before we step up to a station.

What do you guys think about the stationary target thing? I have mixed feelings but I’ve had problems with folks who just need a little work to shoot where they look.

I also noticed some flinch with Cassandra during our session, I used the old rifle range trick of “ball and dummy” to let her know what was happening without telling her. I just closed the gun on an empty bottom chamber and let her see what happened. We talked about her follow through and the problem went away (we switched to the ¾ ounce loads at that time as well)

The problem of looking at the barrels is a big one. A new shooter has to reference something and yet you don’t want them to “sight” down the barrels. I’ve not quite figured how to approach that except to tell them to focus on the target and see the barrels in their peripheral vision. It’s the best way I can figure how to put it. Any suggestions there?

Do any of you tell a new shooter to shift from a general awareness of the space where the target will go and then switch to a focus on the target when that appears? How do you handle that?

I took my 8 year old grandson to the sporting clay course and he drove the cart and launched the clays. When we found a station with a high incommer that just hung in the air before it started to fall I took him down under the bird and he wore it out with a .410. I too like to teach on an incommer. We had worked on sight plane before, but this time I noticed he was looking at the bead, but not down the barrel. So the top lever became the rear sight to the front bead and birds began to break.

Harry

I have my grandsons(5 & 9) starting to shoot. We started out with bb guns, and now are moving up to shotguns. I need to find a single barrel since the sxs guns are a bit heavy for the oldest yet; the youngest just sticks the stock under his arm and pulls the trigger. I'm loading up 3/4 oz light shells so they dont get jumpy when they feel the recoil. I'm a terrible shot, and worse intructor so when they get a bit older, I'll get them some shooting lessons. Right now coming from a messed up family and living in the city, I'm just happy they want to tag along and shoot guns with me.