doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com value of cases, provenance, accessories etc

I, and many here, would be familiar with the power of work done by rocketman on predicting the market values of vintage British guns. Personally his system seems to get pretty close most of the time, from what I've seen. I'm curious if anyone has ideas on what things such as original cases and accessories are worth, what an unbroken pair is worth, whether there is a predictable premium for such things.
Thoughts?
RG

RG,
No answers yet and I believe that is because the individual and specific set of circumstnces and accessories relating to a specific gun determine value. I don't think this is geometry with set formulas for value determination.
Bob Jurewicz

I was at the Pomona Great Western Gun Show maybe 15 years ago and Don Criswell, the Model 21 specialist, had a whole table full of vacant varied gun cases. Lots of oak and leather ones were selling for under $200 or so. He said he never tried to sell his guns with cases as the cases were hard to ship and he never got a dime more with a gun in a case. Sort of surprised me, but I guess we won't give very much interest to a defective gun in a nice case.

Daryl nailed it. I have had several English dealers tell me they would strip the case of accessories and the label then pitch the case when it was the lower to medium priced guns.
A period case weighs nearly twice the average 6-8 lb gun. The accessories were often lost. If you watch the auctions at Holts/Bonhams, you see some silly prices paid for faceted glass oil bottles or assortments of shell extractors and screws.
I'd expect $100 for a good glass oil bottle with no name, $50-75 for metal with no name.
Vintage turn screws, $100 each or more if nice. Stick with repos.
Cleaning rods depend on the material, the big ebony ones fetch the highest. I haven't seen any of them for a while. Small gauge rods and accessories will be twice any 12 gauge stuff.
Jags/brushes and pull throughs, about $25 each. The UK cleaning rods use a different thread than the US stuff. If you buy a vintage rod, you'd better shop for the bits while the rod is in your hand.
Cases are a whole different issue. They were luggage. Some got used up. Often the gun was stored in a safe and the case went to the unheated attic or damp basement. Time has taken it's toll. The basic case styles are canvas covered/canvas hinged ($100-300), leather covered oak frame/leather hinge ($100-400), exposed oak frame/leather hinged, brass cornered ($400-$800) and the much sought after exposed oak and leather with brass hinges and corners ($500-$2000). Add a little more for a nice label, and even more if it is a pair case.
Replacement brass corners are $30 each. A brass cornered case has 8 corners so better cost >$250 or someone is paying you to take it.
Don Amos watches the auctions and realized prices to continually refine his value spreadsheet. There just aren't enough vintage accessories to make a similar comparison.

Joe

Wow, that seems counter intuitive to me: I would have thought that a gun reclining in its original case with its original label, charge cards, accessories etc would be worth some premium over the sum of its separate parts...
RG

Cadet:
Virtually all of this relates to the ethos of the gun and our reverence for its past. This is highly personal... and subjective. Of course, an original Best pair in their original case with all accessories would be worth "more" to a refined collector/shooter. How much more? That's hard to say. I've owned at least three guns and one pair in this category. And I negotiated each deal as a "package" that held more appeal to me than the guns would alone. Others may not care. Especially dealers. Their motive is profit. Ours is romance.

And in a sense, they know what many other "scrap dealers" know: That you can get more total profit from the disparate parts of a unit than you can from the whole. That goes for guns, cars, and a host of other collectible items.

Thus, Mr. Jurewicz has it right. There is no calculation. Save for that of your passion.

Best, Kensal

Although a 'dealer', I suffer from the same problem as most vintage gun nuts and that is enthusiasm for lovely old things.
As a result I ascribe a considerable value to an 'original' case or, more correctly, a case that is a good fit and carries the right labels.
A really nicely relined case or excellent condition original lined case I would value at between $800 and $1800 and although I might not add that full amount onto a gun that was being sold with it, I would certainly price the gun at between $500 and $1500 more than one without a case.
Of course, where the case is not highly specific to that gun, the purchaser may well be offered the gun (or case) without the other.
Accessories, named or unnamed, and labels are often sold for quite high prices to collectors who are 'making up a set'. This bugs the hell out of guys like me who are trying hard to put together a gun with appropriate case etc. but that's the antiques market for you!
I reckon to sell a nice antique ebony cleaning rod for about $120-150, oil bottles from $120-200, snapcaps from about $75-150. This all depends on condition, name etc.
Accessories with a cased gun don't seem to increase its value, just the speed with which it may sell!

Brings to mind a sign I saw somewhere recently:

So-and-So and Sons, Junk Bought, Antiques Sold (!)

I agree but with an exception and thats BP rifles and paradoxes. If you intend to shoot those guns the accessories are very important in assembling the cartridges. If you don't have them you will be looking for them and probably pay dearly for them.
Provenance is another area where the value of the gun may not increase much, but can. Provenance can greatly increase the desirability of one gun over another similar firearm all else being equal. I love it if you are able to put a particular firearm in a particular persons hand at a particular time in history.

It is all important to the gun and the buyer. Original cases, accessories and provenance can double and triple gun values.
eg. Bo-woop, The almost original, almost the Czar's Parker. The lure of guns with great condition and history always attracts heavey hitters.