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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5 |
Hello I need some expert help in identifying this British double-barrelled gun, which belonged to my grandfather. The barrels are made by Sir Joseph Whitworth (Fluid compressed steel) and his Trade Mark is clearly visible in the barrels. The proofmarks , as far as I could find, are British. I am not able to identify a sort of Trade Mark (?) looking like a five point star (or leaf ??). The matter becomes further complicated as here are some letters engraved in the gun, which I believe are not original: Letters JAL are my grandfathers initials and letters JMALF are my initials (grandfather had them engraved meaning that I should inherit his beloved gun, as I did). I have uploaded several photos (and some comments & doubts) here http://2barrel.notlong.comAny help concerning the manufacturer (and the possible value) of this gun will be appreciated. All tips and suggestions are welcome Thanks in advance Joao
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
Do either of the locks or the top rib have any words engraved on them? Your photos of the lockplates are not close enough for me to be able to read. British guns are often engraved with name of who sold the gun, which many times is not who actually made the gun. It looks to be a high grade hammer gun, Whitworth barrels are some indication of the level of quality, which I believe to be very high.
Value is subjective....depending heavily on condition. The outside of the gun looks to be in pretty good conditon from the photos, the barrel condition will greatly affect value. Rough guess, assuming good bores would be about 3K + or - a little bit. Good luck,
Steve
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
First; The proof marks are from the London proof house.
A; Preliminary black powder proof. This was done to the blank tube prior to much work being done.
Proof mark; This is the "View" mark applied after the final proof firing to indicate the inspector had examined it & assured it had passed proof.
B; Bore dia at time of proof, this was done in steps. In this case 13 indicates an undersize bore of from .710" to .716". nominal 12ga = .729"
C: Final black powder proof. This is the interlaced GP for "Gunmakers Proof", the London mark.
D; Nominal shell for which gun is chambered, thus 12-chamber.
Choke; Normally means that barrel was choked to at least as much as .008" (.2mm) but exact amount unspecified.
These last two ie chamber in diamond & the word "Choke, indicate man'f after 1887.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5 |
Hello Steve
Unfortunately there is absolutely no words or names engraved on any visible part of the gun, apart from the serial number. This is what puzzles me...
The barrel's condition is good and their interior looks like new, with absolutely no marks or pits (my grandfather always gave an obsessive cleaning as soon as he arrived from his hunting journeys).
Thanks for your input.
Regards
Joao
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5 |
Hello Miller
Thanks a lot for your informative post. Do you know any web source for British Gunmakers Trade Marks? I believe that it might help, if it exists..
Best regards
Joao
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,126 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,126 Likes: 198 |
If I owned it, it would be a Purdey Pigeon Gun. Side clips, concealed third fastener, characteristic bottom receiver shape, what's not to like? Send it to me and I will have it X-rayed to establish the original markings on the rib etc. Would you mind if I shoot our pigeon club's New Years shoot while I have possession? I think it is a wonderful gun and should be used for its original purpose.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,231
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,231 |
Joao
I have a Lefever Arms Co, "lunchbox special" notable for its lack of all marks, except for serial numbers located on the inside of the locks, but venture there's little "lunch box" involved with your gun.
You illustrate the side plate of another gun with a mark that appears similar to what you call trademarks on yours - - was the manufacturer of this first gun identified?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 207
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 207 |
What an aggravating photo site; when I click on a thumbnail for a large view, the large image appears for about 3 seconds then switches to the next thumbnail. Is there any way of stopping that?
cheers Doug
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Joao;
No unfortunately don't much of anything on trademarks, only the proof marks. Sorry, but as others have said it appears to be a very nice gun.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
One thought that may give a little clue as to its origin would be to remove the locks. Locks are often stamped with the lockmakers name and sometimes a patent #. I removed some recently and was suprised that it was a joint patent between stanton(the lockmaker) and the retailer. This may add a little bit of information for you. It sure looks like a lovely piece, enjoy it.
Steve
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