doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Churchill?

Somewear in my distant past I seem to recall reading a piece on the theory behind the design of the 25 inch barreled shotgun from Churchill and the shooting methology. Anyone able to refresh me on the subject?
XCheers, John

I think Churchill also with the 25" barrels had the a thin top rib that tapered from wide to thin in the breech end. There have been Spanish guns with that description also. I had one made by Zabala, Churchill on barrel with thin tapered rib and 25" barrels.
I don't know what the methology was for it, but I would imagine for fast pointing.

I believe the Churchill rib was meant to give the appearance of a longer barrel gun but with handling characteristics of a short barrel gun. Personally, I had an AYA XXV and didn't care for it.

I think it was more of a sales gimmick and a desire for an individual style. Short barrels work for some but I don't seem to be able to perform well with them. Lagopus.....

John, this no help, but I looked at a Churchill XXV 12 years ago in an Edinburgh shop and passed it back quickly when I felt the balance. I was just too familiar with longer barrels. I hadn't seen a 25-inch barrel. Then as years passed I got a 26-inch Francotte and with a little stick-with-it found it great in the blind shooting over decoys.

Churchill's short barrels lend themselves to quick, instinctive shooting and he promoted a shooting method that, it can be argued, compliments his style of gun.
The practical methodology of Churchill's shooting style was to swing the gun with the bird as you mount, shooting the instant that the stock touches the shoulder and cheek. Many will say they do this but with most shooters (and I have coached a huge number who fall into this category), there is a hesitation before the trigger in pulled. Some use this to good effect to adjust the lead 'picture', and keep the gun swinging, but many are unconscious of the hesitation and stop or slow their swing during it.
The thinking shot might be forgiven in saying that without perceived lead, Churchill's method is bound to fail on any but the closest of targets.
I think the system works for many on all but long crossers because one rarely manages to keep the gun ON the target throughout the mount and is most likely playing 'catch up' in the final moments of the mount. This gives the gun accelerating swing in the final moments and, combined with one's body's 1/10 second reaction time, gives unperceived lead as one is pulling the trigger.
Personally, I don't get on with the system, I shoot 'BASC Method' most of the time but I find it helps those who simply can't see lead without stopping the gun.

Thanks King,
I Just bought a like new AYA MODEL XXV. Got it for a great price -- they list (retail) by the distributor in Alberta at over $4600.00 now -- couldn't believe it. I calculate that if it doesn't like me, I can sell it or trade it and make a bit.
Cheers, John

The story goes (the way that I heard it) was that E.J. Churchill was an accomplished wing shot. One day when he was due to go afield his gun was dropped and the muzzle badly damaged. The story goes that he went into his shop & cut the barrels back beyond the damage, went to the driven bird shoot & won the prize.
The barrels were at 25 inches. I can't say that the story is true but that's the way I heard it.

Best Regards, George

I had at one time an O/U with 26 inch barrels that I used for skeet, and I shot it quite well. However, I was not that good with it at sporting clays.

Short barrels are whippy and swing fast, as probably everyone knows. If you're going to be bird hunting and shooting in dense cover short barrels might help, but other than that I think the short barrels were more window dressing and a passing fad than anything else.

George L. essentially has the 25" story correct. However, it was Robert Churchill, not Uncle Ted, that damage his 28" barrels & had them shortened to 25". Robert Churchill was aware of this rumor & always denied it. See page 104 of "The House of Churchill" by Don Masters.

The way I heard the story first, was that Robert was a real promoter & not above embellishing the story. He went off & won the shoot with his shortened 25" gun. When he was asked why 25", he replied, "because my testing has shown that is the correct length!" At least it's a good punch line.

Also from p104, Gun #640 was probably the first recorded gun to have 25" barrels. I own an earlier Churchill 12 ga that appears identical to pictures of the model 25 box lock, but mine has longer barrels and, of course, is not marked with the 25 on the barrels - still a joy to shoot after more than 110 years.

Regards, Ron