doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Why "high" birds?

There have been a trend in presentation of challenging driven birds, the higher the better the presentation. How high is too high? Is it sporting to use these birds as target practice? I am not talking about the bag, they are raised to be harvested. But to only shoot at high birds and possibly wounding them is not ethical in my humble opinion. Here in the states we rough shoot and the sporting thing to do is not take pot shots at birds that are out of range. I have even seen adverts for Argentina dove shoots touting their challenging "high" bird presentations. Come on how challenging is it to shoot at a flock of hundreds or even thousands of birds, you're bound to knock something down even when you miss your intended quarry.

Decoy shooting for geese is somewhat looked down upon in the UK as most of the shore gunners say only a high goose is a sporting target. It's just different strokes for different folks, something I've always accepted.

I'm sure some of the yangs will jump all over this and say shooting high birds is horrible and all the boys over there should be hung though. Eh.....

Destry

Because it is more challenging to make a long kill.

And if you go to a gun choked tight emough so you can go to larger shot so you have penetration and a gun heavy enough so you can go to more ounces of shot you can have the same kill circle at sixty yards that you do shooting a lighter load through an open choked gun at 30 yards.

Although shooting a pheasant at 60 yards with an 1-1/8 oz of 7-1/2s through a cylinder choke seems likely to wound shooting a goose at 70 yards with 2oz of #2s at 70 yards through a 40/1000th choke might be a fatal long range combination.

Best,

Mike

Remember that in a formal driven shoot, and, especially, in one of the really high bird shoots, there will be a couple of lines of pickers-up in back of the guns. The last line may be several hunderd yards back, depending on the topography. Birds hit are marked and very few don't get picked up. After all, they are a cash crop for the landowner, who sells them twice, once to the guns and once to the gamedealers (for about 2% of the price to the guns!)

I have never been on a driven shoot. However, I think the individual shooter is still ethically responsible to shoot within his capabilities as well as those of the gun/shot combination. Many shouldn't be shooting at anything flying and nothing beyond 20yds. Further, only those who have never failed to bag every single bird they fired upon need fling brickbats. (Biblical somewhat paraphrased).

Mike,
But these are the same people who invented the English game gun i.e. light 12 bores and light loads in 2 1/2" shells. They wouldn't be caught dead with an overbored, overchoked heavy duck gun. Don't get me wrong, I have my share of light English game guns and they are my preference.

Leo,
I would guess that I would have more fun as a gun than a chef.

I am not trying to stir anything, just curious about the fascination with high birds.

Anyone who thinks that all that is necessary to kill doves in Argentina is to just "shoot at a flock of hundreds or even thousands of birds" is totally mistaken. That's the surest way I know to hit NOTHING! I have heard this same statement dozens of times, but always by people who have never been there. I do not advocate shooting at high birds strictly to feel like the shot is more challenging, but that is NOT the situation with doves in Argentina. When you arrive at the location to shoot, the doves are flying very low, especially if there is wind. But, as soon as the shooting starts they begin to fly higher, but all are still very much in range of a .010" (IC) choke and 7/8 oz. of shot. On only one three hour shoot, out of two trips there, have I ever had birds fly high enough to be a bit high for an IC choke. But, 7/8 oz. of 8's out of a LM (.015") was still aplenty.

On a UK driven shoot it is up to each gun to conduct himself in an ethical and sporting manner. It is unsporting to shoot at very low birds; the sporting gun declines those easy shots. The ethical gun also declines birds that are too high. Although generally speaking in driven shoots the birds are going directly or nearly directly at the gunner. The gun is therefor shooting at the most vulnerable aspect of the flying bird and good, clean kills are consistenly possible on birds that I would guess are 45 to 50 yards high. This is in my experience, others' mileage may vary.

Now, it is true that very high pheasants (archangels, to use the common description) have become somewhat trendy in the UK. Those extremely high birds are not for me. But as a previous poster said, those birds are a cash crop to the owner and every effort is made to retrieve each bird.

Stan,

you are right I have not been to Argentina, a situation I will rectify this May when I will hunt with Wild Wingshooting Argentina. Anyone hunted with or heard of them? I am not talking about flock or covey shooting, that is the surest way to miss. From personal experience, I have shot at birds flying in the same flight path and hit the bird behind the one I was shooting at. That is with flock of four doves. I extrapolated to a flock of hundreds, surely there are one or two flying the same flight path as the one you just shot behind. Again I apologize if my tone in the posts suggests that I am calling out anyone, I assure you that I am not. I brought up Argentina because the ads seem to try to attach prestige to their operation for presenting "high" doves much like people advertising their Belgian clunkers as a "best" gun.

No apology necessary, khanh, good question. BTW, get ready for a jaw-dropping shooting experience. May, eh? I envy you. I'd like to go every 6 months until I got tired of it.

Stan