doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Weirdest Model 21 I saw

I live in Centreville, Va. and the other day, I was in what used to be known as Gilbert Small Arms, Newington, Va. They have changed their name. I was looking at some of the over and unders they had: Browning Citoris and Synery, Winchester 101, Lanber, Franchi, and a couple of others. They had about four side bys, including a Model 21. It had 30" barrels with a ventilate rib. It had the single selective trigger, beavertail with the kidney pattern, and a pistol grip with a solid pad. Here is where things start get interesting. The barrels and action had been refinished to where they did not have that nice blue job found on Winchesters. It was a matte finish, almost like it had been sand blasted. The lever was in the middle of the tang and aligned up with the safety. The buttstock had been cut back about 4 to 6" and a replacement piece had been glued. The replacement was a nice piece of black walnut. However, the grain was facing top to bottom of the stock, instead of with the grain of the rest of the buttstock. Not sure why it would be like that. The buttstock and the beavertail had been stripped of the old finish and refinished in oil. This is a consignment gun and the owner wants $4500 for it. The gun locks up tight, but I would be afraid to shoot it because of the way that replacement piece was glued to the buttstock. any ideas why someone would attach a replacement piiece like the way I described?

The 21 has an adjustable bolt so they are almost always tight but not necessarily on face. See if you can get a piece of paper between the breech face and the barrels with the gun closed.

Because of the adjustable bolt the thumb lever position doesn't mean much.

I would keep looking unless you want one with a matte finish. The stock sounds pretty awful and the gun sounds like a $2500 gun to me.

Best,

Mike

It is easier to find wood with the long dimension with the grain. You need to cut from 2" thick by 6" wide piece of walnut to get cross grain size. Gun stocks come from such timber. However, gunstock timber is not available at your hardware/wood outlet. Sounds like the work on this gun had little to with gun craftsmen. $4500 strikes me a prety outrageous "ask"!

I'd not get excited about that gun at $2000.

I have worked on a lot of 21's,several hundred,never had one off face,plenty with a worn bolt. The adjustment is for bolt engagement and is a screw on the barrel notch for lock-up. If too much engagement,sticky bolt.Sounds like a gun for complete rebuild. i.e.,new stock, refinish metal,check parts. Consider the value of the barrels etc. and the rebuild and the total should come to $7500 max. So,with stock about $3750, metal work $2000. Then the piece should sell for $1750 max.

I would worry about why the metal was refinished in the way it was. Does the matte finish attempt to hide a bunch of small pits? or was it blasted in that way due to a poor polishing job that rounded off corners etc.

Also with the finish issues did someone mess with the internals? Maybe the "gunsmith" did a quick and dirty hot blue and failed to completely strip the action.

I had to have my first 21 rebuilt due to general wear and a poorly done re solder on the bottom rib. I knew what I was getting into with the gun and was able to buy it with enough of a cushion to where the work still left me with a decent deal.

Good luck if you decide to get into this gun.

Parris

I have 4 of them with 8 barrels and do not need any more. But 3 came in today for various problems and I will repair them.My comment was simply to make a guess,somewhat educated, about the costs.The good news is that I,and any others, can get parts and the 21 is a good foundation for a rebuild. It is not an elegant shotgun,but I first lusted for one in 1957 and now own the "Mack Truck" of shotguns,four times over.

I have seen a number of Model 21's over the years that had been poorly refinished. The refinisher purchases the beat up gun for a song and then sees $$ signs before his eyes and attempts to have the gun made saleable for as low a cost as possible. Once that is done the Model 21 is junk and not worth a single dollar as the cost to properly refinish (If it can be done at all) will far exceed the resulting value.
In other words 'junk will always be junk' or in this case 'weird will always be weird'.-Dick

Thanks for the info, but I don't understand why the replacement piece of walnut was not glued/attached to be in the same position as the buttstock. Wouldn't this have a tendency to weaken the stock? I have seen pictures of shotguns where they stock was cut short for the previous owner and when it was sold a replacement piece was attached to be in the same direction as the buttstock. As far as the overall condition of the gun, the owner/manager told me there was some minor pitting on the barrels. I looked down the insides of the barrels and did not see any pitting. I seriously doubt if the person who did the work could be called a competent gunsmith. The owner/manager was in agreement with you concerning the price. Try about $1750. Both of us agreed the owner is trying for pie in the sky with the price he is asking. Again, many thanks for your comments.

My first guess is that the person who did it, was an idiot!