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Imagine a pinned Sterlingworth Gun Co. in 12 gauge, pristine overall but for a small missing piece off the toe and plate from having been dropped long ago. Great original color and blue.
Then an early AH Fox 12 gauge of the same condition and no faults.
Is there a premium on one over the other as far as money is concerned?
Best,
John

Others may not agree but I would like the Sterlingworth Gun for my money. It is a slightly rarer item and one not often seen in high condition. I have two early AH's in high condition but both my Sterlingworth Gun Co. guns I have are in much more well used condition. Sterlingworth maybe 10-20% more in value, not 100% more as some dealers seek.

Nice to see you posting again. I have missed you. Hope you are on the mend and that this year is much better for you. Best wishes and happy new year.

Thanks, my friend.
Time is a tough task master. It takes it's toll.
Thanks for the insight and the good words.
Best regards,
John

Long time, Mr. Mann. Glad to see you ticking over. I don't have to imagine as I have both guns. The 1911 BE I have had for several yrs. The gun upon which I lavished the classic "pool cost more than the house" restoration treatment. It never got its frame gussied up but barrels professionally rust-blued, checkering chased, new forend fit, wood refinished. Neither I nor my survivors will ever realize the money I have in it for the basic reason that's it's still an 11C$ gun with a 7C$ redo, and the usual rationale that the students of the art don't care for the early ejector train, an the final and very telling reason that the later "Teutonic" engraving patterns are more desired. As the BE Fox was produced for only a few yrs. by grade designation it is uncommon if not rare. The Sterlingworth Co. pin gun came along on a consignment rack in early '08. I will get my money back today, tomorrow, any day this month on that one as the stock head is absolutely solid inside and out, gun is tight, lever right, bores excellent, frame showing case turned grey except on top tang and other less accessible areas and also not "pecked" {dinged 'n pitted) as the S&W fellers like to say. Not a high condition gun but a solid example for 4 and a quarter. And since when did rarity matter (as in the case of the early BE)? I also have a Flues 4E with the "rare" lightweight swamped rib illustrated in MR. Snyder's I. from the Getgo. When queried about this rib, says Walt, "It's rare but nobody knows about it."

As for the Cult of Sterlingworth, clearly any SW pin gun (whatever the stamp on the frame) will encourage its owner to go for the gold asking mid-teens to mid-20's. Most of the ones I see are tired and abused. I'd probably go for an early CE (in the condition you describe) and add the bucks if I had em. Don't listen to me! I walked away from an unblemished Browning Sidelock with the "special" game scene engraving for $2900$. That was four yrs. ago. I'm certain that the gun, maintained in the same condition for four yrs, would have returned 30 to 50% on the purchase. Fool that I am, I passed even though I had the money because I knew I'd shoot it rather than lock it in a time capsule. I don't want to think about the fact that the 3 bills I might have "invested" in that one went for perhaps three 80 percenters. Love (and curiosity) are in the eye of the beholder but high condition guns bring the money. If the SW Co. pin gun is high condition, then it's not just a "sheep" gun LOL and will sell to big dogs. I also agree that you might want to invest in the SW.

jack

Friend John:

I claim no expertise on the matter, as you well know, but I would go with the Fox. That's a gut call, but based primarily that you have to find less of an "afficionado" to sell the Fox, whereas the Sterlingworth, as stated, is rarer, there is also a lesser realm of potential purchasers.

On the other hand, I'm an Ithaca guy, and could be absolutely totally wrong - But I dont think so.

Great to see you post again. It has been a long time. The world does indeed need more Extraordinary Gentlemen, and I hope you are mentoring a few.

Regards

GKT

I dunno here guys- My only AH Fox is a later 20 bore Sterlingworth 26" uncut barrels open bored SN 261981- I tried to get it lettered by the Fox Gruppen, but they only trace serial numbers for the graded Fox shotguns--

I have a hunting pal who has a BE 12 with 30" Krupp Flusshall barrels- DT, straight hand stock- it is a "Steinway" But I have also seen for the last three years a 12 early Sterlingworth with the "Parker Pin" DT 30" extractor with some wear, but tight and sound- asking $1800 and won't budge- why? because the owner/consignor read an article by the shotgun editor in Field & Stream about a similar 12 Sterly (but not a Parker pin series) that Mr. Bourjaily bought from Scheels and valued at $1800 after a "face-lift"--

I like Fox from a business inventory point of view- Three frames I believe- one for the HE that came out in the mid-1920's, ow a std 12 frame, and a frame for both the 16 & 20 gauges- No 10, 28 or .410's, and fewer grades, and all very well made and finished off-I also appreciate Parkers, but so many frame sizes, gauges and grades- must have been an inventory nightmare at times..

My 20 was made in Utica, has 2.750" chambers and uncut barrels, DT and extractors-I have a friend with a late Philly 20 Sterling Worth- and the wood, checkering pattern, wood to metal fit, etc. are "dead nutz" identical- He paid $1650 for his Philly gun, I bought mine privately for $1200. To collectors and purists perhaps the Philly Foxes are worth more, but in the field-maybe not so. RWTF

RWTF...you could get your Sterlingworth lettered, but you wouldn't get a free ride--it'll cost you $30.
http://www.foxcollectors.com/factory_letters.htm

I think the early Sterlingworth is special and significant because it clearly demonstrates where A.H.'s shotgun roots were established and he carried much of the design of the venerable American "hinge-pin" gun to manufacturing his own 'brand'.

John, welcome back. I was wondering when you would turn up here.

I like the Sterly pin guns, but I'd rather have a graded Fox if price is the same. I have a Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox pin gun, and it's rather nice. If it were a Sterly I'd be shooting it, but a respected dealer suggested that this one is too nice to shoot and I should "preserve" it. I hate it when that happens.

Thanks, friends.
I 'spose I should explain a bit.
I own the Sterlingworth Co. gun.

Back a few years ago, King Brown was in need of a great example of a Fox gun. Off went the best Sterlingworth I had ever seen. It was the true "benchmark" gun for judging color and blue.
I never regretted sending it off as King would use it well.

But, I missed it greatly.

I came across this one, its equal, and bought it. Paid a premium. You would have as well.:}

I have been offered a trade. I wanted your help in making that painful decision, as I am close to folding my tent and retiring from the great gun search.:}

Thanks, again. I am close to deciding.

Best,
John
PS---I am going to the Amoskaeg auction. There is a collection of pristine Remington Nylon 22s. I am only about 20 degrees less enamored of them than great SxSs.