doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Another Sherping question.

The last question on Sherpings seemed to draw quite a few knowledgable responses. I have a very nice H. Sherping drilling. Its a back action lock, underlever gun in 12X12X?
A gunsmith years ago said it was a 9.3 X 72 but all he did was take my money. The markings on the barrels are few. The only one that seems to pertain to caliber is 8.7mm. On my Kobalt digital calipers (second set and as junky as the first set I returned)the bore reads between 355 and 358, depending which time you measure it.

I always thought Sherping built this gun. It seems it may have come from a number of makers and was finished at Sherpings from the replies to the other question on these guns. Any way to tell the maker? Quality-wise, this is probably the finest gun I've ever owned and have kept it for over 30 years while others have come and gone.

Could well be the caliber he told you with those bore dimensions. There was a wide variation. Only way to know for sure is to do a chamber casting. Brownells sells an inexpensive material called "CerroSafe" with complete instructions on how to do it, almost foolproof. Very simple to use. Make yourself that chamber cast and you'll be sure.

When I need a chamber cast to determine caliber I do it using nothing more than candlewax. Probably not as accurate as CerroSafe but plenty good enough for the purpose. - Jani

Cuz,
I am the point of contact on H Scherping guns for the GGCA. I sent you a PM with my contact info, but if you don't get it send me an e-mail at vaughans_hart@yahoo.com & we will see what we can sort out for you.

m-4

I agree with Jani and without the Cerro-Safe on hand, wax is very easy. With the 8.7mm mark, it would be a post-1910 longarm and Heinrich Scherping was long since retired, or possibly expired, by the time of your example. Also if a 9.3X72R, it wasn't standarized until circa WWI(1913???), so I'd venture a guess at the time frame of 1910-WWI. Also as a guess, I'd say Heinrich Scherping didn't finish it but sourced the Suhl craftsmen and had his name rolled stamped on it. But the typical Rigby style forend latch always puzzles me on the Scherpings. Does it have a lever operated forend latch?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It is definitely not a 9.3 X 72. After the fine gunsmith informed me, I bought a box of cartridges and they didn't even come close to fitting. I was in my 20's and he had kind of a "don't bother me, boy" attitude. It does have the Rigby style forend latch. The serial or assembly number is in the high 1200 range. I thought with hammers and an underlever action the gun might predate 1910.

Your issue is that you more than likely purchased a cartridge with a 0.366" diameter while your example required a 0.358" diameter. There's a excellent series of articles by Mike Ford in the a current GGCA( http://www.germanguns.com ) publication on the varieties and design of post standardization loadings, which were an attempt to span the diameter spectrum. There was such a variation of bullet diameters until the cartridge was standardized. There should also be a "72" stamp on there somewhere. Hammers really aren't an indication of age as if I recall correctly, ALFA, Bornmuller, etc., retailed an offering in the 1920s. Can you email or post pics?

It sounds like a Sauer Model 19 if it has a dolls-head extension.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Cuz,
I would be willing to bet that it is the early Norma 9.3x72R Normal, it was sold in the 10 round boxes with RED label. I have several guns in 9.3x72R and some will only chamber about 1/2 way with the later rounds. Zip me an e-mail & I will shoot a picture of the boxes that you should be looking for & by the way I took a reading with a starett micrometer as close to the case as I could get & it measures approx .360 diameter.

M-4

With gun in hand, yes, ellenbr, it has a dolls-head extension.
Proofmarks include the typical circled 12, 12/1, crowns, Nitro, kruppstahl, etc., and the 8,7mm mark on the rifle barrel.

There is one other proof mark I don't understand. Next to the serial/assembly # on the rifle barrel there is:

2,4g G.B.P./St. m.G.

The outside dia. of the rifle chamber is .438 while the rim is .533. Rifle bores still come back all over the place as I guess sometimes I'm on a land and sometimes a groove.

Thanks to all who helped. The gun is in excellent shape and has light scroll engraving (50% coverage). Whoever built this gun were craftsman with few peers.

Interesting that I've seen 2 similar puzzles within a week. If it has an "Eagle Nitro" stamp on each scattergun tube, then that is a post-1912 mark. The "Crown" over "N" 2,4g G.B.P./St. m.G. is a July 23rd, 1893-1912 smokeless proof applied to a tube that experienced proof with a solid projectile. 2.4 grams of Gewehr Blattchen Pulver(smokeless leaf powder) with a Stahl Mantel Geschoss(steel jacket solid projectile). The mm stamp replaced the pre-rifling bore diameter stamp circa 1910. Although a possibility, I don't think it is a pre-1912 proofed example if it has the "Eagle Nitro" stamp on the scattergun tubes. So I would guess the preliminary proof was prior to 1912 and the longarm was completed and experienced final proof post 1912. I'd say your drilling is typical of the abilities of the Suhl craftsmen and that is why Suhl was so heavily sourced.

Here's a Funk double rifle drilling similar example:



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse