doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 12 skeet gun..............

I know of a an original Model 12 skeet gun with a 24" barrel. I've shot it. It's a 12ga. gun. No BS. For real. They exist.

If the Mdl 12 has a factory rib there will be a proof mark just to the left (as I recall) of the rib close to where the barrel attaches to the receiver. In the office now but I can check later if you want to know for sure. The plain barrel mdl 12s had the proof mark on top of the barrel, that proof mark will be covered up if a rib was installed other than at the Winchester factory. There were some factory authorized Simmons ribs as I understand it. I have seen Simmons ribs on Mdl 12s that had the offset proof mark. Of course there could have been a factory rib removed and then replaced with a Simmons.

In the mid-50's our USAF skeet range had all Model 12s, plain barrels with Cutts. Around 1959, they started sending them off to Simmons using Local Purchase funds to have ribs put on. This seemed to catch on quickly so that by the early 60's many of the Air Force bases had vent ribs on their Mod 12s.

Measure the inside barrel diameter and chokes. WS1 was a bell choke, one that actually had a reverse taper optimized for 21 yard skeet targets. I've never heard of a factory 24" barrel, especially on a skeet gun, but it's possible as a custom option. Measuring the barrel and chokes will tell the tale.

My guess is that the barrel is bobbed, and I'll likewise bett that the barrel choke is a true cylinder.

We are now pretty sure that this gun is turning out to be original. According to Winchester, (in one of their books that mentions them) there were a few of these made. I am going to have to get the serial number if the gun is still around, but most of the guys in this area think the gun is original.

A 700,000 range 20 gauge Model 12 with a vent rib is not "original" in any stretch. First vent ribs were 1954. The 20 gauge was never made with a "milled" rib post either. The gun in question is not worth anywhere near the $1500 asking price. On another point, anyone can cut a flare into the end of a cut barrel. It is quite hard, however, to put a few thousandths of choke behind the flare on a cut barrel. I would guess that the locals who think the gun is an original 24" gun have never seen a bore micrometer, or spent $1500 on a shotgun.

I have two of the Cutts 12ga's. The older one, 10362xx is near new, no rib, bbl marked cyl, and no "skeet" stamped on it. The bbl has most certainly NOT been refinished so I presume that the Cutts is one of the factory sponsored Lyman fixtures.
The other one, 11098xx is beyond question factory with the flanged bbl, no rib, no choke marking of any kind, and "skeet" stanped under the serial on the action only.

I have not measured the bbls on either w/o the Cutts tube on so I can't say exactly, but just guessing where the bbls ends would make them both around 22" (from the bolt face).

Not sure if this is of any use to anyone, but JIC

WtS

They are neither for sale

10662XX plain barrel 12 is marked SKEET under the serial on the receiver. Serial matches on the mag tube; top rear of barrel and receiver both have the Winnie proof in an oval. There is no choke mark on the barrel anywhere and there NEVER was. Cutts comp. and collet choke mech butt to a flange turned on the barrel. End of Cutts with the collet run down to full choke to bolt face: 27 3/8". Total length Cutts comp. and choke collet: 5 3/4". Subtracting steam whistle from total: 21 5/8". Overlap of compensator on barrel in front of flange: 9/16". Total barrel length: 22 3/16". Total effective length of the whole lashup for swing wgt. and all that kinda stuff is as above 27+". I also have a later '41 m12 with an overbore (roughly 10 ga.) Barnes barrel and vent rib on 12 chamber and Colonial Arms choke tubes. Got a cheap Sile Monte Carlo on the back. Swings a lot easier than the official plain barrel model from the early 30's. I am married to this one for the one single thing about a gun that brings the most satisfaction: I'm a consistently good shot with it. I have the other one to admire the crotch walnetto and laugh to myself every time the "ribbing" starts about Winny and AfterWinny cause whether this "factory skeet" is worth anything or not, it is unquestionably "factory". How ya like them fish?

jack

W the S: I'm going to check to see if I still have a photo of the catalog copy for the plain barrel skeets with the sword hilt up front. May be on Photobucket. I'll post if I find.

jack

Can't find the catalog page but here's the gun. Second foto shows the flange behind the Cutts: