doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hey Walt; What is an "S" grade Ithaca Double?

Walt Snyder or anyone else so informed: What is the "S" grade stamping occasionally seen marked above the gauge on the water table of Ithaca doubles? For example, in your book in the Minier chapter on the bottom of page 52, gun number 141837, it is marked "S" above the gauge.

A factory Second, Standard grade, Special?

It's a Snyder special...certainly stolen from his personal collection.....Please return to Walt.

Special order maybe....lots out there with the "S".

No difinitive consensus on "S" yet though?

And yes, Walt would be the one to ask.

Hope you have a nice one floating in the direction of your "cash" bead.

Mark

Bill, The quick answer is it was a grade with fluid steel barrels. A little more to the story but that's my 2 cents.

Originally, the Ithaca No. 1 had some engraving and twist barrels. Then Ithaca introduced a lower-priced twist barrel gun, the No. 1P for plain. It just had a roll-stamped logo in the sides of the frame. After a couple of years what was the No. 1P became the No. 1 and the engraved No. 1 was gone. Ithaca must have seen a demand for a lower priced Damascus barrel gun because they introduced a No. 1 1/2 with the roll-stamped frame and Damascus barrels. Fairly soon it got a bit of zig-zag border engraving in addition to the roll-stamped logo. With the introduction of steel barrels, Ithaca brought out a No. 1 Special with Cockerill Steel barrels. These were the guns stamped with an S for the grade stamp. Finally Ithaca added an even lower-priced Field Grade gun. It had Smokeless Powder Steel barrels and a half-pistol grip, while the No. 1 Special had the Cockerill Steel barrels and a capped pistol grip. Also the Field Grade was only offered down to 20-gauge, while the No. 1 Special could be had in 28-gauge after 1912. In early 1915 a Field Grade had a net selling price of $19.50 and a No. 1 Special was $22.50. In mid-1915 Ithaca introduced their bolder new engraving patterns and the No. 1 1/2 got some bold floral engraving. As WW-I was heating up the supply of composite iron and steel barrel tubes from Europe was drying up and the No. 1 and the No. 1 1/2 got steel barrels. During 1919 Ithaca moved to simplify things. The No. 1 Special went away, and the Field Grade got a capped pistol grip. The No. 1 and the No. 1 1/2 were combined as the new No. 1 with the bold floral engraving and steel barrels. Through this period we still find quite a few guns that appear as what the current catalogues called Field Grades but stamped with the S for grade, probably using up receivers originally intended for No. 1 Specials? Then there are Ithaca guns stamped with an S in different locations and I don't think anyone really knows what those Ss mean. Finally beginning in the mid-1930s, Skeet Guns were stamped with an S in the choke designation spot on the fronts of the barrel flats.

WOW Dave. Thank you so much for that detailed explanation. And to Walt and Mark for your reply.

Jolly

Here is a great example of a 1919 vintage Flues that meets all the criteria of what should be a Field Grade by the 1919 catalogues, but the receiver has the S grade stamp of the by then discontinued No. 1 Special --

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133866206

Dave,

Yep, that's one of those "S" grades. As you had so neatly explained, that 10 gauge in that gunbroker auction must have one of the left over receivers Ithaca was using up.

Kinda confusing. Why couldn't they make it simpler for us almost a 100 years later.

Thanks Dave, Jolly.