doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Syracuse choked "backwards" ?

I'm going with Rocketman.....

An O Grade SAC with 4-digit serial number indicates that you have the lowest grade Syracuse gun offered at the time. The O Grade Syracuse was a stock gun built to standard dimensions/specifications and both barrels were bored full/full unless otherwise requested. It is unlikely that triggers would have been modified for a southpaw on this grade gun; but the customer could have certainly specified his choking. We may never know the reason for the reverse choking; but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of period left-handed double gun shooters used whatever double trigger set-up came with their gun off the hardware store shelf.

A few years back there was a series of articles in Double Gun Journal on the Syracuse Guns. IIRC, the article said that the grading system used by Syracuse at the time was "different". A OO grade was the lowest of the low, an O being one step up.

Craigster, you are indeed correct; but the OO Grade was not cataloged until 1901, so the O Grade was the lowest grade gun offered in the serial number range noted above. SAC serial numbers had reached 5 digits long before 1901; and, with a few recorded exceptions, SAC guns seem to have been manufactured in numerial sequence beginning at SN #1 and progressing upwards into at least the 39,000 serial number range (I haven't recorded numbers above 40,000 at the moment, nor an OO Grade below serial number 20000 at this point). As FYI, an even lower grade SAC double gun was added to product line production in mid-1904, a hammergun; but these guns were given a unique serial number beginning an "H" prefix. This model was also sequentially serial numbered beginning with the number 1.

topgun,

Thanks for the info, it's been a while since I read the articles. Care to make a WAG regarding the mfg date on my gun?

Craigster: I am assuming your gun is marked "The Syracuse", as opposed to "The Hollenbeck"; but regardless how it may be named, a gun in this serial number range should have the moniker engraved on the trigger plate. My research indicates that the gun name change most likely occurred between serial numbers 4000-5000 (I have not seen a Hollenbeck named gun above SN 5000). If your gun is marked "The Syracuse", my best guess is that the gun would have been made in 1896, or shortly after 1896 when period literature tells us the name change took place. If the gun is marked "The Hollenbeck", my best guess would be a manufacture date of 1895 to early 1896. Wish I could be more precise; but to date, the only SAC gun I have been able to date was a Grade 3 gun in the 16,XXX range with a factory presentation plate dated June, 1900.

Tom,
Thanks very much for your assessment of the gun. It is marked:

The Syracuse
Made By
Syracuse Arms Co

The quality I find quite amazing, especially when one considers the fact that these were relatively "low end" guns at the time. Don't know if it's original, but it even has an ivory bead in the center of the rib!

As FYI, the quality of the first SAC gun I saw, an early AE grade, was the reason I got "hooked" and have since devoted so much time to research. In my opinion, the early SAC guns were the best fitted and finished; but as a collector, all examples seem to catch my interest. In comparison to the higher grade SAC guns, the low grades are indeed very plain; but your Grade O gun represented a lot of quality at a $30 list price. I hope this is the first example of many you will acquire.

I'm a little reluctant to post on this subject and show my ignorance of doubleguns, but let me mention something though I really doubt it will be relavent to this case. With muzzleloaders (my area of study and collecting) doublebarrel shotguns were often choked in the right barrel and cyl bore in the left barrel. The reason was because it was easier to reach up and cock the right hammer for a second shot than it was to reach over the right hammer to cock the left hammer. Assuming we are talking about this SAC Gun being very early 1900's (see, my ignorance is showing!) could it be possible that it was ordered right hand choked because the original owner was used to a right hand choked double hammergun?

Tom, I took my Hollenbeck to Bart Miller at Bass Pro here in Denver to have the top spring looked at. He was careful to open it up. But when he did I was surprised to see jewling on the inside of the trigger plate and sears. I will get some pictures to post this week. Paul Driscoll