doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Flame or Torch case coloring?

I'd rather take my chances on proper re-casing than at the tip of an inexperienced man with a blow torch.

Hey Ed

First of all, true case hardening dosen’t get anywhere near 1600Deg F, you might want to read up on it more.

Never had a problem with warping or cracking; possibly because I don’t case harden at insane temps, I use proper blocking and everything is annealed dead soft prior to case hardening.

And just like any other professional, if a firearm is damaged due to my workmanship, then I am responsible.

One should ask the same of you…. Do you back your work …. Or just blame another Ed

homeless: looks like you have jumped into this kinda late without reading the previous eight pages, which is understandable as much of it is boring personal attacks...anyway, following is posted again as a response to your query regarding experience:

i myself do not do any gun work of any kind. i have neither the skill nor the patience. instead, i utilize the services of ed lander, for most of my repair and enhancement needs. old ed has over 60 years of experience in the gunsmithing trade and does fine work at a fair price. he has recolored literally hundreds if not thousands of shotguns receivers using his low controlled heat, chemical process. most of his work turns out better than what you have seen posted to this thread by what appear to be case color notzs. also, my criticism of those who case color shotgun receivers via the high heat bone charcoal method is well known, particularly by those who practice that black art as a business. as you have read, i have a few enemies, but fortunately have far more friends; many of whom are happy owners of fine guns that have been repaired or enhanced by old ed.

mike: why do you case harden when that was already done at the factory? as for bone charcoal temps. i am no expert. i only know what i have read over the years and what others have told me who are far more knowledge than i am. as you are an apparent expert in this trade, why don't you enlighten us? your comment regarding blaming others is rude and uncalled for.

Kinda like the pot tryin to call the kettle black ain't it?

Why even attempt to argue with this guy? Save your collective energies. He endorses the torching of guns for his discerning customers and that isn't going to change.

Kilibru, I can only guess you are speaking about that other disagreeable fellow --- I have blocked all his replys to post so that I won't see the responses. My mother once told me not to engage in conversation with a fool -- if they are totally ignored, they generally fade away. I think if all didn't respond to him, he would get no pleasure from whatever he post. It would sort of be like him talking to himself since he would be ignored. What do you think ?

Mr. Mike --- Nice work on CCH as well as your polishing & blue. I can see that you easily have 15 years experience.

I've never seen of heard of a single instance of a charcoal hardened gun cracking apart. That assertion is just phooey.

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of instances of Ed Landers putting the ugly all over a gun.

There is a lot of shock that takes place during the quench and parts can warp on you if precautions aren't taken. Some guys reduce the risk by quenching at lower temperatures which probably duplicates what a lot of makers did historically. I personally think it is wise to block anything you care about and pay attention to how it hits the water, if it was an action than annealing it would be a good bet for a first step. I've found that the colors are better if the parts are subjected to a drawing operation following the quench, for me this is mostly cosmetic; however, it certainly takes away any excessive brittleness that might occur in thin sections, or, if you are dealing with a high carbon steel to begin with.

Years ago I read about the Ersatz jobs that were done with cold blues that had been dropped in drops of water. Bill Brockway did this on some of his parts with nice results; however, he never presented it as anything but what it was, an imitation color case job. I also remember reading in one of Ralph Walkers books that Tincture of Benzoin would provide the reds and yellows with a low heat source if used properly and was supposed to provide a decent simulation of the color case hardening effect. I tried this process and got less than great results, but it could be what Ed refers to and I'm sure Walker had more success with it than I ever did. In these applications I wouldn't knock the process as I think the temperatures you are dealing with are safe, at least as safe as any Birchwood Casey hot brown or Belgium Blue ever was. However, I think at best it resembles cyanide case colors which might suite a Stevens restoration more than the other processes, certainly it doesn't have the look of a properly done, traditional bone and charcoal job. This would be the best case scenario, worst case, as has been mentioned, would be that whoever takes a torch to the receiver is drawing the temper way past the point that would be permissible to do without substantially reducing the hardness. I wouldn't want to shoot one of those guns anymore than I would want a botched genuine bone and charcoal hardened one, I would not, however, have any objection to the latter process when performed by someone who knows what they are doing.

Alex Johnson

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!

Dave please lock the Ed thread...