doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Westley Richards style droplocks by other makers..

Bodson,

As far as I know, Westley Richards invented the Anson & Deeley style drop lock.

OWD

From F. Courally ”Les Armes de Chasse et leuer tir”, footnote on page 175-176:

En 1888, j’ai fait un breveter un fusil genre A. et D. à batteries accessibles par enlèvement de la paroi latérale extérieure de la bascule.
Mais, à cette époque, on n’était pas encore aux hammerless démontables et quoique le fusil fut d’un bon fonctionnement, il n’obtint aucun succès malgré l’approbation que lui avait accordée mon prédecesseuer, August Lebeau, en en fabriquant quelques exemplaires.

Making a translation of it with help from internet it seems not to have been a drop-lock, who I first thought it may be. It talks about "accessible by removal of the side wall external of the rocker".

Gentlemen,

just came across this older thread. Interesting! I heard before of a Merkel with droplocks, but never saw a photo of one. Great!

Well, I can ad another maker using droplocks � la Westley Richards and two which were "inspired" by the WR invention:

1/ In a 1928 published book "Jagd- und Sport-Waffenkunde" by M. Schmuderer-Maretsch is shown on page 44 a droplock design by E. Steigleder/Berlin:



I haven't seen such a Steigleder gun in real yet. As you will note from the photo of a 1905 made WR lock I inserted in the scan of the relating page from the book, the lock is a true copy of the WR design � only the shape of the hammer differs a little.

2/ the patents by Carl Lohse (German patent #176495 filed 25. June 1904, British patent # 14,468 of 1904, filed 27. June 1904, US patent # 810,162, filed 1. April 1905 and French patent # 352811 filed 10. June 1905):




Top view of the trigger plate with plates for A&D locks

Actually, this is no Westley Richards copy, but more an improvement or a "design around" solution: the whole trigger group is hand-detachable; the plates for the A&D parts are fixedly arranged on the trigger plate. But the basic idea of hand-detachable A&D locks is fulfilled with this invention anyway (and the claims of WR's patent would have been infringed by said solution).

According to the patents Carl Lohse was German ("a subject of the German Emperor") and was living at 18 Rue Bois l'Ev�que, Li�ge, Belgium.

I'm very sure to have seen already a drawing of such a gun. If I remember correctly it was a "Leue Victoria" shown in a German book or gun journal - maybe in Otto Maretsch's 1910 book "Moderne Jagdwaffen" ???? In any case: there seems to have been a connection between Lohse and an "Aug.(ust) Leue", who's mentioned in the US patent as a witness. If I only could remember where I�ve seen it!


3/ Charles Philibert Cl�ment of 47 Rue Cheri, Liege, Belgium also tried a "design around" solution, shown and described in patents owned by Clement: US patent #693,639, filed 28. March 1901, German patent #131747, filed 4. February 1901 and British patent 2202 of 1901, filed on 1. February 1901:



Contrary to the WR solution, Cl�ment has no plate, to which all parts of the lock are attached to, but uses the cocking lever "B" as a support for all parts of the lock. After removal of the trigger group and after removal of bolt "A" the whole lock mechanism (B, C, D and R) can be removed from the receiver to the rear.

This "impossible bottle" solution isn't as handy as the WR droplocks, but at least, it's a true "design around" solution. I don't know, if this idea worked and if Cl�ment made/sold guns with this type of locks - I only know his pistols. Has anybody seen such a Cl�ment gun?

Regards

Martin

Gentlemen,

Today, I'm able to add a new candidate, which was bought some weeks ago by a friend of my father (who made the photos):

Cont�d












An interesting Belgian shotgun with detachable locks. Only markings on the barrels:

FLUSSSTAHL KRUPP ESSEN (left barrel)

FUSIL � D�TACHABLE LOCKS (right barrel � note odd mixture on French and English)


Only factory marking "Crowned PF in Oval" is located on the barrel flats (see photos #7 and #9). According to this site:

http://mallorquina.pagesperso-orange.fr/source/pageP.htm

this marking belonged to the company "Pirlot & Fr�sart" ,95 Rue St Gilles in Liege.

I guess, the gun was made between 1898 and 1903, as the inspector's initial "J" is present - according to my observations, the "J" was used in 1903 latest (at least, this is the case on early Browning Auto 5s; only those made in 1903 (first year) do have the "J" - the later ones (1904 and the following years) have an inspector's letter "T".

The big question: is it a copy, was it made under license or were original WR locks used?

Well, the locks look exactly like the original locks made for non-ejector guns by WR, except, that the outer finish isn't sunray-brushed, but blank. Actually, the locks of this Pirlot et Fr�sart gun were fire blued on the flat sides of the panels, but only some remainder of the fire blue still is present .

Also, the WR patent dates and use number are present in an oval like on the original WR locks. Additionally, the locks have an indication

"(P)ATENT No. 133714 - 11. F�VRIER [February] 1898"

Number and date of WR's Belgian Patent maybe?

Any opinion welcome.

Regards

Martin

Here is a link to my old ARMAF, it looks identical to photos I have seen of detachable lock J. Ronge guns. It ain't a Westley Richards, but it ain't bad.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post327830