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#111675 09/08/08 03:43 PM
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Recoil precived or real is up to the person doing the shooting.I remember training the men going to Viet Nam on our combat rifle ranges.Stateside Marines still carried and used the M-14 then.When these men got orders to V.N. their training was done with the AR15.Myself and a few other instructors would show the lack of recoil by holding the rifle to our chin and dumping a full mag on auto with no ill effects.Of course anything past about five rounds with the new folks and with shoulder mount the rifle climbed to the sky.All could hold it level but their mind said they were being pushed so their body complyed. With a little help each man could hold the full mag on target.No matter if your body is being pricked with a stright pin or the tip of a Bowie your brain says you are being stabed and your body reacts the same in both cases.Recoil is what you do with it.Take a M-60 mounted on top of a jeep and let her rip,the jeep jumps all over the place and you say what recoil. On the other hand it is easy enoght to hold a M-60 along side the hip and let her rip with just abit of twisting motion.The same holds true with the fifty.Poor gun fit will make a gun feel like its kicking the heck out of you but its just the stock saying hi because of its design like the 101 trap guns.The gun itself kicks no harded than any other gun of the same weight and load.Now the one 460 Weatherby I shot made my teeth hurt and my mind now says it might in any gun of that caliber I shoot so I go from 458 stright to 500 and forget about the 460

Amigo Will #111686 09/08/08 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Amigo Will
Poor gun fit will make a gun feel like its kicking the heck out of you but its just the stock saying hi because of its design like the 101 trap guns.The gun itself kicks no harded than any other gun of the same weight and load.


Poor stock fit doesn't increase recoil, but it sure can increase kick - felt recoil - big time. Shoot a few rounds of skeet with a gun that has too much pitch or stock drop, and your cheek bone's gonna get real tender, Amigo.


Sample my new book at http://www.theweemadroad.com
jack maloney #111760 09/08/08 11:23 PM
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i like jeff coopers thoughts on recoil. said he couldn't understand all the fuss. couldn't we just ignore it?

the only thing i've ever shot that hurt was an interarms whitworth 458 and that really good looking skinny classic british express stock plus the way too small barrel added up to sub 8# weight and pain. next 458 was a post-64 m70 which was barely over 8# but very good stock design and recoil was never an issue.

heaviest kickers i've shot are a 500 jeffery i built on a p14 enfield action. 11# and i've shot it 10rds off a bench with no more ill effects than fatigue. and i've got a ruger #1 i built into a 500-3" nitro. it finished up barely over 9# before i added some weight to the stock and while recoil was fast beyond imagination with the muzzle way above 45 degrees up i afterward took stock: no broken bones sticking out, no blood, no detached corneas, no bruising, no physical damage of any sort, which told me adverse reactions to recoil are either cumulative fatigure or all in someones head.

was some young guy at cabelas once trying to impress the buddy with him. told him the 270 weatherby was a big rifle and recoil was so severe he wouldn't even be able to stand firing it. i didn't say anything but i sure wanted to. THAT's the main reason Americans are bothered by recoil: for their whole lives they've had buddies, gun writers, etc telling them that recoil was a problem.

roger

rwmckee #111806 09/09/08 09:57 AM
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My Whitworth 458 was my favorit gun untill I relized there was no way I could keep the stock together. The thin stock looked great but every few rounds the bridges would be broken out,Even ran a bolt up through the pistol grip to the action and it didn't help.Cheap RamLine stock and sold it.

Amigo Will #111812 09/09/08 10:24 AM
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yeah, they really had the look right on those but apparently used the same barrel OD as on the 375's. they make good 375's. mine, it shed the front sight hood on shot #1. by the end of my first shooting session - maybe half a box - it had split the stock behind the recoil lug, thru the web behind the magazine, and about 2" down into the wrist. i acraglassed it all back together and put 1.5# of lead in the forend and buttstock. after that it stayed together and was a lot more comfortable but by then i was totally soured on it. the m70 was way mo' better.

roger

rwmckee #111813 09/09/08 10:25 AM
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and i think i buried a hidden crossbolt down into the wrist and another behind the mag box ala jack lott's recommendation.

i think it already had a crossbolt behind the recoil lug but as lott noted the thin sides of the stock by the mag box bow out like an accordian under recoil and the thin areas around the trigger just can't take it.

roger

rwmckee #111818 09/09/08 10:42 AM
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Much like my CZ550 'Medium' the Whitworth of Yugoslavia through England was a clunker. It's about 25% rifle of the Heym .375 I used to own.

Jagermeister #111839 09/09/08 12:50 PM
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i've owned a half dozen of the CZ's counting one of the old ZKK's in 375. still have a 550 in 416 rigby and they've all been outstanding. zero malfunctions and far more accurate than they had any right to be and none were finicky about loads.

roger

rwmckee #111853 09/09/08 02:43 PM
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The CZ Whitworth guns I've had were great except for the failure of the 458 stock

Amigo Will #112012 09/10/08 04:12 PM
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Amigo Will, your story of cranking off a mag full of AR-15 with the butt held to your chin with no ill effects reminds me of a wager I won about 25 years ago. I and a group of buddies were at the camp for a little R&R, and during a poker game, buddy Bob made the statement that the .22 LR was the only gun that had no recoil. I countered that he was full of it, as usual, and the discussion began in earnest. He made his case, and I cited Newtons' Law, etc., and we bet $5.00 on who was right. Now the problem was how would we prove it? At the time, I had a collection of old single shot .22 cal. boys rifles such as Favorites, Rem. no. 4's, Hamiltons, etc., and I had just acquired a Stevens Little Scout No. 14 1/2 which weighs all of 3 lbs., and had it along for the trip to test fire it. We all marched out back and I loaded it and asked him to put its' steel buttplate on his chin and fire. Before he shot, I stopped him and asked him to hold it about 1/4" from his chin, which he did, When he fired, he almost dropped the gun, grabbed his chin, and moaned over and over through clenched teeth, "My chin... I broke my f---ing chin." I held out my hand and said, "You owe me $5.00." I would not classify Bob as a cupcake with a glass jaw. I do not know what design in the recoil cycle of an AR-15 would defy the laws of physics, but I saw Bobs' reaction to the recoil of a very light .22 rifle, collected my $5.00, and am not willing to try this one at home.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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