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Posted By: MKB Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 12:01 AM
This topic has likely been covered but I'm new to the site and can not find it. Please humor me. Your help would be greatly appresiated.

I prefer balistic tips for whitetails so I bought some 7x65R Norma Strike Tip 160GR for my Sauer combo. Its a 50's gun. Best "groups" at 100 yards were 6". Shot some Sellier & Bellot and three shot groups are maximum of an inch. On this gun I realize I'm likely religated to the S&B.

Picked up a Kriegoff 7x57 / 22 Hornet last week. I tried Nosler 140 AccuBond in the 7x57. It groups right at an inch; however, its 10" high and 5" right. Thats an easy fix.....BUT.....the Hornet is deadly acurate at 100 yards. My concern is that if I ran S&B thru it as is (with no adjustments) it might also be balls on.

Have you all been having these types of issues with the more modern ammunition?

Thanks
KB
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 01:33 AM
I have found that velocity is the key and that is of course regulated by powder, which I am not sure which you have loaded. Also not sure why the success, but I have migrated to all VV powder when possible, & the accuracy is phenomenal on Combos across the board. Now, I had to shoot quite a bit, grain by grain to find the solution but the Combo will tell you what it fancies.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: MKB Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 02:28 AM
That all makes sense as I was a reloader for many years; however' I guess I was unclear in my post. All rounds I refered to are factory rounds.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 02:53 AM
Alright then, I'd check velocities with a Chrony. Or @ least check published plus verify the bore diameter.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 02:57 AM
Was the S&B 7X65R the SPCE 173 grain bullet? Bullet weight can also be a factor. Is there a bullet type & weight stamp on the Combo(s)?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: MKB Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 05:29 AM
Yes the SB is 173 SPCE. Its a classic Geman pass thru bullet. Shot two 120 pound white tail does and both ran. Not far but ran. I dont want to shoot a 200 plus buck and have that result. A BT bullet would do better if I could find one that would shoot.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 12:09 PM
I am not sure about a German pass thru bullet, but maybe a Bohemian or Czech?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 12:16 PM
Ford should be along shortly, possibly with some novel ideas.


Cheers,


Raimey
rse
Posted By: Der Ami Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/11/20 01:57 PM
MKB,
I have had similar experiences over the years. I bought a used drilling with a scope already mounted. On a guess, I loaded some 173 grain bullets I had brought back from Germany to about the RWS velocity. I didn't have to touch the sighting. Since the 1970s I have had an O/U 7x57R/16 ga. It was also regulated for the 173 grain bullet. I tried several combinations in it, looking for a load with a little more velocity. That gun would shoot Brenneke slugs into my hat at 100 meters if the 7mm barrel was sighted an inch and a half high and I held half way up on the vertical post of the reticle. Also bullets lighter than the 162 grain TIG shot high and right like you experienced. I believe this is due to the fast rifling twist. I just went back to factory ammo or handloads with 173 gr bullets at factory velocity. Your problem with the 7x57R is very similar to mine, but American 22 Hornet ammo is loaded to higher than European velocity. I suggest you load the 7x57R with a 170-175 gr bullet to about factory velocity and load the hornet with a 40-45 gr bullet to about 2400 fps and see if that helps. Unless your 7x65R shoots slugs as well as mine did, you don't need to worry about two different barrels shooting to different points of impact. This will free you to use whatever load is best for the rifle barrel, whether factory or a handload, you can just re-sight it to fit the ammo. I hope this helps. BTY, if you shoot them high in the shoulder( hoch blatt?) they are not as likely to run.
Mike
Posted By: MKB Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/12/20 05:41 PM
That makes good sense to me Der Ami. I guess my question could certainly been more clear. I spent 3 years hunting in Germany and they like big and slow with little fragmentation as they sell the meat. Bottom like is from what I have seen and heard is that these old guns have a twist suited to the long heavy slow bullets which makes sense. My desire was to find a fragmentation bullet....not to get speed. Unfortunety the better bullets from factory are much lighter and hotter. I just ordered 2 different RSW rounds and will see how that goes.

I see you are in Alabama like me....what part?
Posted By: Der Ami Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/12/20 07:34 PM
MKB,
The 173 grain 7mm bullet I mentioned for both the 7x57R and 7x65R is the HMK( H Jacket, copper covered hollow point) It is a great bullet, like a predecessor of the partition bullet, but with the partition made by the jacket being folded in on itself. The front fragments, back to the "H" and the rear penetrates. You almost always get an exit. I tried the 162gr TIG ( Torpedo Ideal Bullet) with the 2 part core. It was way too violent for me, it blew up the shoulder on my Gams. A heavy Nosler partition might work for you. I use the 60 gr. partition bullet in my 5.6x50R and 85 gr partition in a little 6mm wildcat( shortened 222 case) and they work great. Where were you stationed in Germany? I live about 22 miles north of Auburn/Opelika on Highway US 431.
Mike
Posted By: steve white Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/14/20 12:43 AM
Good info! Now, if anyone reloads shotshells, have they found any velocity preferences for slugs, and of course that will have to be broken down into type and weight.
Posted By: MKB Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/14/20 05:10 AM
I was at the MEDEVAC unit in Landstul. Across the autoban and up the mountain from Raimstine.

You kind of have to take what you can find in RWS I guess. I ordered what they had that looked like it might work. For the 7x65R I have some "H-Mantel" comming. Sound like what you are talking about. And for the 7x57R I have "KS" tipped shells comming. If they will group I'll go shoot a couple of cull does and see how they do.

But that TIG sounds like what I am looking for....sounds like an SST. Im starting to regret having sold all my reloading stuff ast year.

Im just west of Enterprise but moving to Eufaula area soon.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/14/20 12:41 PM
So you are a Big Boll Weevil fan?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Der Ami Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 12/14/20 03:09 PM
MKB,
Yes, the "H Mantel" is the bullet I was describing. Mantel means "coat" in German, but it refers to the "jacket", as we would call it. The "KS" bullet is the "Kegel Spitz"( cone point)bullet. I don't have any personal experience with the "KS", but a friend used it in his 6.5x57 and his photographs of a REH seemed to show it to be a pretty violent bullet also. There are two weights of "KS" bullets, 8.0 gram( 123.5 grains) and 10.5 grams( 162 grains).I would expect the 8.0 gram KS to impact high and right, making it hard to find a sighting satisfactory for both the 7x57R and 22 Hornet. The 10.5 grain should be easier. The "TIG" and "TUG" are old Brenneke names, and I think the patent has run out and RWS makes the same basic bullets under different names now. I have some 7mm 10.5 gram TIG bullets, from an attempt to buy some 11.2 gram TIGs to try ang the translation got mixed up. They are bullets only and are pretty expensive( that is why I still have them). I know where Landstuhl is I had to go to Ramstein several times for R&G Club Executive council meetings, when the CG was our President. I was in Wurerzburg, in Bavaria. Eufaula is just down US 431 from where I live. You might check with "T&G German Gun Imports" (www.german-gun-imports.com, or www.save-the-fine-guns.com) for ammo. They stock S&B but can also get RWS( with a long lead time). With the covid19, shipments seem to be delayed right now though.
Raimey
WAR EAGLE
Mike
Posted By: HeymSR20 Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 01/09/21 08:08 PM
In my Joseph Hambrusch 7x65r combination I get goid groups with RWS HIT factory ammo - 140 gn copper bullet. I also use 51.5gn of IMR 4831 under a Hornady 139gn softpoint and 50gn of IMR 4350 under the 173 gn H- Mantle.

All shoot well under 1” groups, bit barrel has to be cool and allowed to cool between shots.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 01/10/21 03:08 AM
I was shooting some 9,3X62 Express GECO 16,5 grammes today & too they were most accurate. I was pleasantly surprised.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: oskar Re: Modern Ammo preformance in Combos - 01/14/21 12:02 AM
My drilling 7x57R really likes the PPV 139 gr SP, S&B 173's double the size of the group which would still be adequate.

100yards
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My BRNO combo gun 12ga/5.6x52R much prefers 55gr Buffalo Arms .228 bullets over the S&B 70gr again about half the size group.
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