12ga x ? Trying to narrow down the search for the rifle caliber. Nothing in my copy of The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions. quite fit. Closest is the 11.15x36R Werndl carbine. Dimensions of the cast follow.
Length of case = 1.41
Cal = .43
neck of case = .457
base of case just above the rim = .475
rim thickness is .073
rim diameter is .535
Any and all help greatly appreciated.
Mike,
Are you looking for loading data or confirmation that it's a 11.15 x 36r Werndl?
Case dimensions and a cartridge description for that round are in Dixon's European Sporting Cartridges. I can scan the pages if you're interested.
I'm trying to identify what it is exactly. The dimensions don't quite match up. The Werndl are
Length of case = 1.41
Cal = .43
neck of case = .473 16 thou larger
base of case just above the rim = .491 16 thou larger
rim thickness is .076 3 thou larger
rim diameter is .574 39 thou larger
it's just the closest that I've found. Case length matches perfectly.
Mike,
Dimensions of chamber casts are always larger than the cartridge, sometimes .010-.015" or more larger. If you can find some cerrosafe I suggest you make another chamber cast of it. Wax shrinks when cooling and it's soft enough that it's hard to take good measurements. On the other hand, wax is a quick way to determine the basic case shape.
Mike
Cast was with sulfur not wax. Sulfur is much easier to remove from a chamber than cerrosafe. From what I've been told sulfur is the method lots of gunsmiths use.
Mike,
Austrians made cape guns in 11mm Werndl carbine. I would get a 8x56R Mannlicher case or a 7.62x54R Russian case, shorten it and see how it fits.
Regards,
Jani
I would like to hear more about this sulfur concoction. What are the particulars? I thought sulfur to be quite corrosive but it may be temperature dependent.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
Gun is Belgian made so could be for anywhere. Has some silver inlays on the rib near the breach. For $265 I couldn't pass it up.
Mike Harrel,
The first chamber cast I ever made was also sulfur, but that was 55 years ago and I used common feed/seed store sulfur( reinforced with a piece of "tie wire", maybe that is why it was a different color. They are easy to remove, but it is because they shrink. Cerrosafe shrinks also, but returns to size after a time and more precise measurements can be taken then. If you wait too long to remove it, it will be difficult to remove, but can be melted out with a heat gun. If you never ID the cartridge, you can still load for it, and I agree that you couldn't turn it down. BTY, Jani may be onto something.
Mike
Someone on another forum suggested 450 #1 Carbine. Photo looks good as does the length. But I don't have any other dimensions at the moment.
Mike,
Is the rifled barrel left or right?
If on left hand side, and the shotgun barrel (right hand) being of 12g, the gun was likely intended for the British trade - a 'real' Cape Gun and not a BF (Büchsflinte). If so, the .450 #1, which I'm not familiar with BTW, sounds good.
Kind regards,
Jani
That cast looks more like Bit o Honey to me