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Posted By: GaryO I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/07/14 07:16 PM
I am examining a SxS 16 gauge, underlever, hammer shotgun with Damascus barrels. The only markings visable are on the top rib and that reads "I.A. Henckel in Berlin." Can you folks offer any info on this gun? Thanks...

Posted By: sharps4590 Re: J.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/07/14 09:55 PM
From the information provided about the only thing those who know can offer will be whether or not the gentleman was a gun maker or just a dealer, the years in business and perhaps if he built guns for German royalty. I'm sorry, I'm not one of those but I assure you one of the guru's will be along.

A good series of pictures of the gun along with good, legible pictures of any proofs or other stampings and these fella's will be able to tell you a bunch!! Even I might be able to decipher one or two things....but that's about the limit of my knowledge.
Posted By: GaryO Re: J.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/07/14 11:33 PM
My daughter is a photographer and will help me with some photos. They will be included soon...
Posted By: ellenbr Re: J.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/09/14 10:59 AM
I find little info on firearms merchant I.A. Henckel of Berlin but it would seem he was active as early as the mid 1800s. Ditto on sharps4590's comments.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: GaryO Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/09/14 10:31 PM

Posted By: Gunwolf Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/10/14 09:46 AM
Is it possible it reads "J.A.Henckels" on the top rib...?

Kind Regards,
Gunwolf
Posted By: GaryO Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/10/14 04:32 PM
that is possible. It is so worn it could go either way...

Question: can you folks get my photo links to open? Thanks...
Posted By: Der Ami Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/10/14 10:34 PM
GaryO,
No, I couldn't get them to open.
Mike
Posted By: GaryO Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/10/14 10:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Der Ami
GaryO,
No, I couldn't get them to open.
Mike


OK. I will try something else. Can anyone here post some photos for me into this thread? Thanks...
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/10/14 10:50 PM
I / J same demon in German. Forward the images to me & I'll get them up for you.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 01:40 AM








Some Teschner-Collath eccentric breech - divorce the tubeset from the frame and capture images of the marks.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 03:44 AM
What about an image of the muzzle?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: GaryO Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 05:16 AM
no can do. sorry...
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 01:05 PM
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm

Those safeties look like a hold over from the percussion era & I wonder if both tubes were designed to fire cylindrical projectiles? I'll have to dig a bit to find a double with similar safeties to compare.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Gunwolf Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 01:59 PM
Raimey, "I" isn`t the same as "J", wether in German nor in English.;-) But it is sometimes difficult to read the old (gothic) letters and so some errors occured.

I presume, the gun was sold by the shop of J.A.Henckels Zwilling Werk, the famous blade and knive maker from Solingen, one of the oldest brands in the world.
Look here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._A._Henckels

They established a shop in Berlin in 1818 with all their stuff. But of course, it's only an idea, I don`t know if they really dealt with guns…

picture of a showroom: http://up.picr.de/7035286qsj.jpg

Kind Regards,
Gunwolf
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 02:32 PM
Wolfgang:


For sure I'm not a linguist but from Latin to German the letters I-J are a digraph. Chase I & J from Latin to Dutch & on to the German dialects. I & J were interchangeable.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: Gunwolf Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 06:02 PM
Raimey, maybe you are right. It's all a little bit complicated:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J

Cheers,
Wolfgang
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 06:05 PM
I wouldn't purposely lead you astray.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
Posted By: kuduae Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 11/11/14 10:04 PM
There was an I.A.Henckel gunsmith in Berlin, documented "about 1850". Notice, the gun is obviously built with a breech action of the Gastinne, Renette design that is most often ascribed to Collath. Collath merely used this breech action combined with his own hammerless locks. This is a “slide and tilt” action. The side turning underlever works an eccentric cam. This cam pushes the barrels back to the standing breech and locks them. On opening, the barrels slide forward a short distance, thereby disengaging the breech. Now they are free to drop open around a small pin at the tip of the foreend. You may read the story of this breech action in Der Waffenschmied # 45”, page 4, a publication of the German Gun Collectors Associaton, www.germanguns.com . This issue on Collath guns is available from the GGCA bookstore.
As Henckel combined this breech action with conventional back action hammer locks and “modern” slant strikers of the Schneider/Daw type for “modern” centerfire cartridges as we know today, I tend to date the gun to 1865 to 1880.
Posted By: ellenbr Re: I.A. Henckel in Berlin 16 ga.? - 12/02/14 12:43 AM
If you are an "Indiana Jones" fan, you'll remember that in Latin Jehovah begins with an I - or so the story lines goes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse
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