GGentlemen,

just recently, I bought a period photo of a proud German hunter posing with two killed foxes – and an unusual shotgun:






The shotgun is odd for two reasons:

1/ The large name “K. KERTSCHER” (or K. KERISCHER”) carved on the stock – the nightmare of any collector. Obviously, the owner of the gun wasn’t a fan of understatement….

2/ the odd large horn trigger guard – looks like a lever for cocking/decocking the gun or a grip safety.

Does anybody know the shotgun system? Anything comparable known regarding the grip lever?

Best regards

Martin

sauerfan,
Could it be a Meffert?
Mike

Meffert was my 1st thought but it might be sourced from F. W. Keßler:


SicherheitSgebühr von F. W. Keßler in Suhl mit beweglichen
Bügelgriff

Es ist entweder der nach dem Zuklappen dce Gewehres etwas abstehende Bügelgriff unmittelbar beim Anschlagen anzudrücken (Fig 623), oder es ist ein aus dem Baskulenschmeife sitzender Knopf zurück zuschieben. Im allgemeinen haben die Selbstspanner sehr an Verbreitung zugenommen. Die Borzüge der selben bestehen in der Raschheit des Ladens und in dem freien Blick, den das Fehlen der Hahnen gestattet. Nicht unerwähnt soll bleiben daß durch die Konstruktion der Selbstspanner Crachement sd nicht...

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Did both Imman. Meffert & Karl Leberecht of Amberg have an "Ideal Gewehr" and "IdealDrilling" or was it solely Karl Leberecht circa 1913? The term was Gewehrsicherung "Ideal". Leberecht had Austrian patent Nr. 52801 and French patent Nr. 433161 which was similar and also some odd device in DRP Nr. 188300

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The gun shown in Martin Krause's photos is an Immanuel Meffert, Suhl "Hubertus" safety gun, a later type with toplever opening. The unique triggerplate lockwork was invented and patented by the forester Franz Feist, Sommerschenburg, DRPatent # 7142 of 1879. I have an earlier example with the Lefaucheux underlever breech action, datable to 1893 both by the crown/V mark and family history. Opening the gun pushes back the hammers to the cocked position, as usual. Releasing that pistolgrip-like lever from the small of the stock partially uncocks the mainspring (yes, there is only one four-pronged omega-shaped spring in that double gun!), blocks the triggers and blocks the hammers back from the firing pins. If you want to use the gun you press that lever back to the stock, where it is caught by a little latch. Will post some photos soon. Only much later "Hubertus" became a more general I.Meffert trademark applied to drillings and other guns.

The action area of my own I.Meffert "Hubertus" safety gun.

The lockwork of this perfectly round actioned gun with the unique mainspring. This is the type of lock usually found in the "Hubertus" guns until end of production around WW1. "Safe" position.


Another, even much earlier Meffert "Hubertus" gun. This V-spring lockwork is still much closer to Franz Feist's 1879 patent drawing."Fire" position in lockwork photo

Well, I think that Kuduae nailed the gun.I also did some research but coulden't find the relativ patent. However for those who have the "Waffenschmied" issue's there is an article plus pictures in the Issue Nr 16.
Marc.

Hi Axel,

thank you very much for solving the mystery – I agree with Marc: you probably nailed it! (although: Mike “Der Ami” was the first who came up with Meffert).

And I agree: the basic idea already was subject of German Patent # 7142 owned by Franz Feist.

Interestingly, according to the Akah catalog of 1898/99, Meffert owned a utility model (DRGM) No. 32,200.




According to the DRGM number, it was registered in 1894.


Best regards

Martin

DRGM 32200, 25.09.1894: "U-förmig gebogene, bis zum Bug aufgesägte Doppelschlagfeder für hahnloses Jagdgewehr". this protected the U-shaped mainspring.(Waffenzeitung Suhl 1895) But it must have been made before, as my Hubertus-Gewehr shown above already has that spring. As my gun has the crown/V Vorratszeichen proof exemption mark, which was only struck on guns ready for sale between January 4, 1893 (date of the order) and March31,1893. "The V stamps are to be destroyed after April 1, 1893" as the proof law was then fully effective. The 1895 Waffenzeitung also has ads by I.Meffert. Here he advertises Hubertus guns both with the Lefaucheux breech action wit horn clad lever under foreend and, at a higher price, with top lever action like the gun on Krause's pre-WW1 photo.

Via Belgium I was asked to post this photo from Sweden. It shows an unusual I.Meffert "Hubertus" gun with the underlever curled "British style" over the triggerguard, probably made for export.

BTW, as the barrel lump shape shows, it is a common continental double-grip Lefaucheux lockup, only the opening lever is bent back instead of the usual position under the foreend. It is not a "Lancaster action" which was a slide-and-tilt action like those by Gastinne and Collath. Nor is it a "Jones action" which has an upright locking "turret" inserted into the action bar from below and lugs shaped different.

Adolf Franck, Hamburg, ALFA 1911 export catalog:

Here is a Hubertus with the safety as seen in the picture.

One of my favorites... simple and functional.

I've never actually handled one of these, but it would seem that hunting upland game and carrying the shotgun by the grip, as most hunters I see do, would result in the safety being taken off safe by the hand holding the shotgun as soon as it was picked up. Is there something in the design that prevents that, or is this more for the German style of stand hunting, where the shotgun is carried to the stand location using a sling?

From the experience I have had with my gun, there is enough amount of pressure to keep the safety in the safe position however when the need to fire occurs is not difficult and almost natural to squeeze off when raising the gun to fire.... That's just me and my experience.

A beautiful specimen, and practical too (IMO).

With kind regards,
Jani

Gentlemen,

my thanks to you all for helping in getting the right answer to the puzzle, especially to “kuduae” (Axel) and “kcordell”. Yes, the gun on the photo is a Meffert.

Thanks again for the help!

Regards

Martin

Don't know if it is the same one as above but Kal. 12 & Serial Nr. 18901 - HUBERTUS=GEWEHR/D.R.P. 7142




Franz Feist Sommerschenburg bei Wefensleben - Nr. 7142 - Klasse 72 Schusswafen und Geschosse - 1879

Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse