Every German drilling I have obtained has full and IMP/Extra Full chokes. These guns are from the 1920, 1930's, 1960's and 1980's.

Can some one shed light as to why? I like carrying a slug with me for back up when hog hunting. I would not use a slug with a full choke.

thanks

Doug

Because drillings should be capable of taking fox, hare and such at longer distances.

I don't see why a brenneke slug should not be used in full choke - if target test shows useful accuracy.

With kind regards,
Jani

I believe Jani is correct and if I recall correctly, Axel E. & Mike Ford have similar opinions but I'd like to hear them again.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Before the Nazis took over- the German and Austrian gun makers, whether building schrottenflinten, bockflinten or drillings- tending to bore the shotgun barrels to the tighter standards prevalent in the European gun making community. One good example of this, albiet with a segue to the "Belgies" are the 12 gauge Belgian mfg. Brownings- both A-5 and Over/Under- where they used a dot-dash and asterik marking to denote full choke, modified, imp. cyl.

American gun makers at that time used a NBD of aprox. .7290" for a 12 bore- no matter the chamber length- European makers tended towards a NBD of .7250"-- and whereas Winchester and Remington used a 0.030" constriction (on a 12 ft. radius/ogive curve) for their full chokes- European makers used anywhere from 0.0335 to 0.040 constriction.

Some of this has changed in post WW2 mfg.'d shotguns- but always not too much- I have a Browning light 12 A-5 made in 1961 in Belgium- 28" VR barrel mod. choke- (by their handbook that came with it) and it patterns AA trap loads as tightly at 40 yards as my M12 Pigeon Grade Trap gun full choke mfg 1948!!

After reading this thread I measured my Eckoldt 12 Ga drilling. The bores are .730 even; the chokes are, surprisingly, .035 in the right brl. and .050 in the left one. I have never shot a brennecke slug throu them and I would hesitate to do so with such constriction. Soon I will make a thread describing this gun.

Regards,

EJSXS

Montenegrin is right. The tight choke in drillings was common to nearly all German shotguns up to the 1960s. The main purpose of shot barrels in Germany then was shooting hare, sort of a large rabbit living in open fields. This is also the reason why most German shotguns and Drillings are stocked rifle-like, designed for shooting mostly downhill. Shotguns were rated by tight patterns giving range, the tighter the pattern, the better. And, remember, this was still the time of paper cases and felt wads, modern loads with plastic shot cups need much less constriction for tight patterns. As formal shooting at driven feathered game was almost unknown to most German hunters, the advantages of an open-bored "game gun" or "upland gun" was not seen then.
BTW, original Brenneke slugs were designed to be shot through these tight choke bores. Brenneke's older advertising even claimed best shooting through full-choke bores.

Montenegrin is right. The tight choke in drillings was common to nearly all German shotguns up to the 1960s. The main purpose of shot barrels in Germany then was shooting hare, sort of a large rabbit living in open fields. This is also the reason why most German shotguns and Drillings are stocked rifle-like, designed for shooting mostly downhill. Shotguns were rated by tight patterns giving range, the tighter the pattern, the better. And, remember, this was still the time of paper cases and felt wads, modern loads with plastic shot cups need much less constriction for tight patterns. As formal shooting at driven feathered game was almost unknown to most German hunters, the advantages of an open-bored "game gun" or "upland gun" was not seen then.
BTW, original Brenneke slugs were designed to be shot through these tight choke bores. Brenneke's older advertising even claimed best shooting through full-choke bores.

I'm not familiar with the term "Improved Full", what does that mean in inches? When I think Full I reference a measurement of .035" to .045". Is there a more technical description you are alluding to by your question?

In an article from Briley on chokes they talk about full at .035 and extra full being .040, I use the term improved full for the .040

Briley Article on chokes

Doug

The German shot barrels were always choked tighter than American shot barrels! My favorite firearms are the German made Cape guns with a rifle barrel on one side and a shot barrel on the other! These rifles I’ve been told were made for the settlers on the cape of South Africa. The original reason for the super tight chokes on German made shotgun barrels has already been answered here, in addition to the hares, and foxes black forest wolves, and large swans were targets that required longer range and tighter chokes as well. In the Cape guns the rifle barrels were usually at least 8X57JR shooting 196 gr softs and solids @ 2450 fps for the larger game in Africa, and the reason for the FULL, and MOD FULL being that the Breneke slug worked best in the full, while long range shot worked best in the Mod Full which is tighter!

One of my Cape guns is a H. Barella, S/S cape gun with a 16 ga shot barrel on the left, and a 8X57JR rifle barrel on the right. The shot barrel was choked Mod Full and with modern shot cup shells was way too tight for slugs, and you had to wait for a Blue Quail get out to about 45 yards before easy hits could be made! I had my smith open the shot choke to and American modified choke. The shot barrel then was a real upland barrel, and was deadly on Doves and Quail, while the rifle barrel placed the 196 gr rifle bullet right on the sights at 100 yes, the shot barrel would place a Brenneke slug right beside the rifle also at 100 yds, while printing a very dense 30” pattern of No7 ½ dove loads, or No6 duck shot perfectly out to 35 yds. This little side lock hammer cape gun has made some well-placed shots on Mule Deer, whitetail, Elk, out to 250 yds and black bear over bait with both rifle and Breneke slugs. Wild hog don’t have a chance with this little cape gun in my hands!

There is, of course, another possible explanation. If you rephrase the German phras commonly uttered when someone sneezes- and it means: To you good health- to "Goes-In
Tight", perhaps that's the standard for the choke reamers and hones used by Merkel, Krieghoff, etc-- just a "shot"!!

Another use for the tight chokes on Germanic drillings and combination guns was shooting "auerhahn," or "black game," or "capercaillie" (doubtful spellings...), a HUGE forest grouse that looks a little like a turkey crossed with a blue grouse. Not sure how they are hunted, but I believe it is somewhat like turkey hunting, hence the "turkey" chokes.

Anybody know the status of hunting these in Western Europe? Extinct in places? Protected? I know (from member's pix) that they are still hunted in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia.

Endangered in Germany ("red list") and under a hunting ban. Acording to German-language Wikipedia, there are less than a thousand breeding pairs in isolated mountain forests in the Black Forest, Bavarian Wald, and several smaller mountain forest areas.

In the threads memorializing our Russian colleague Geno, there was one showing him with one he took in Russia after an extended stalk, walking forward only when the bird sang its mating song.

Here's an article from a February 1977 Sports Illustrated in which the huntress uses the rifle barrel of a 16 ga/ 7x57 BBF to take one, in Austria. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1092091/index.htm

One would definitely want full choke for the Auerhahn depicted in the article--which I enjoyed BTW--thank you for posting it. I wonder if in the days of fixed chokes, full was used because you can always open it...Steve

You may have something there- back in the day- LC Smith and other of America's premiere double gun makers often bored both barrels Full- for as you so wisely stated, they could be re-bored at the factory to more open choke(s) if the purchaser so requested. Obversely- you'd have an easier time shoving a pound of melted butter up a wildcat's rectum with a red-hot poker than taking a skeet choke and changing it into a Full choke-

Mike one other reason the chokes were very tight was because of the over shot wads typically used in the older guns when these were made. With modern shot shells being loaded in shotcups the patterens will be as tight in a mod choke as the over shot wad shells did in thier day. My 16 ga/ 8X57JR (.318 Dia)cape gun was re=choked to mod, and lengthened the 2 3/4 inch from the short 16 ga used when that cape gun was made in about 1910. Now the shot barrel patterns very well at 35 yds and handles Brenneke slugs perfectly at 100 yds on the rifle sight for the rifle barrel.