what to do, what to do with them (if anything)...

anybody wana discuss this complex topic?

STFU ed.

The hard working productive ones that are here need to have path to residency and eventual citizenship. They need station and rotate US military units along US-Mexincan border in order to secure it and prevent any more from coming in unlawfully. That would give US soldiers something to do when there is no official war going on. To me it makes no sense to have thousands of US military personnel "sitting around" in places like South Korea, Japan, Europe,......This being 21st century it's time for those countries to subsidize their own defense forces.

I'll second that.

jager: ok, so if one is an illegal immigrant and does not have a documented history of being a productive hard worker, then what happens to them?

It has nothing to do with how hard a worker they are....illegal is illegal.

Forgiving someone for breaking the law is no solution.

well then jOe, what is the solution? what do we do with all of the illegal immigrants currently in our country?

Send 'em home.

Send 'em home.

send em home...

cept some have children born here who are american citizens. do you deport them too? if not then do you take them away from their parents?

what about the political refuges? if you send them back to their country of origin? it could mean their death.

and what about those who have been here so long, that this is their home?

and then what about those who would die if they did not have the healthcare they receive here?

i say anyone who is here is blessed with good lucky...we who were born here take that good luck for granted...those who come here from somewheres else do not take their good luck to be here for granted...perhaps a better answer is amnesty after we tighten up our borders? it is the right and compassionate alternative...any deportation of those who are lucky enough to have made it here, would be a stain on our national honor...

ronald reagan granted amnesty to illegal aliens in the mid 80's.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672

is it time to do it again?

and then there is this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672

Excellent response. Too bad it will not sink into Ed Good's brainless head.



Another excellent response from Mike. As jOe said, Illegal is illegal. When you break the law... you pay a penalty or the law means nothing. If Ed Good was caught being in Mexico illegally, the authorities would send him home... but they would probably incarcerate him in a filthy dangerous Mexican jail before that happened. No one would take pity on him because he had broken the law. Where is Ed's compassion for those who play by the rules and cannot get in because of cheaters who jumped the line? Where is Ed's compassion for legal citizens who have lost jobs or have seen their earning stagnate because of low wage illegal competition?

If Ed had children while he was in Mexico illegally, they should be deported along with him. Children belong with their parents unless the parents are abusive or otherwise unfit. If Ed and his children sucked off the Mexican Health Care system, they should be billed for those services. I work for my health care. It would be wrong for me to expect Mike, jOe, J.R.B., or any other taxpayer to pay for my health care if I am an able bodied person. Only a leech would think otherwise.

There is no need for further dialog on this subject. We would all do better to concentrate on the anti-gun posts made by King Brown and Ed Good.

round up all the illegals and ship 'em to Cuba as payback for Carter's monumental screw up.

Better yet send them all to Nova Scotia.

"any deportation of those who are lucky enough to have made it here, would be a stain on our national honor..."

what does the phrase "national honor" mean to you?

Now just hold on a minute... Libtards like King and Ed are only compassionate when they are spending other people's money.

National honor is not going through life with your head up your ass. It is something then, which you will never have Ed Good. National honor is when a nation protects and defends its' language, borders, and culture. There is no national honor in allowing your country to be invaded by hordes of illegal immigrants who then steal work which belongs to actual citizens, and who use the health and education system and infrastructure without paying taxes. National honor is not turning a blind eye to violent felons who repeatedly violate your laws and eventually rape or kill innocent victims like Kate Steinle.

No compassion for her from Obama, Ed Good, CrapperZapper, or King Brown, eh?

Just think of all the cheap labor King would have to tend his grape patch and turn his produce into MD 20-20 giving him more time to hob nob with the rich and famous.

Those get sent back. Remember what Carly Fiorina said about small business being key to future success of America. We need hard working illegals to make them successful.

There are too many hard working people who respect the law in this world. Only an idiot would prefer to hire someone who broke the law.

The future success of America also depends upon having full employment for the people you already have. Only idiots like King Brown, Ed Good, CrapperZapper, and Jagermeister would desire bringing in illegal alien leeches to work while expecting taxpayers to pay for the Welfare leeches who are content to see their jobs and wages watered down and taken away by criminals from Mexico.

Typical ultra-conservative utopian thinking that has no relationship to reality.

Perhaps as good an argument as any as to why illegals should be deported is the estimated $700,000 savings per family to taxpayers. These people are dragging our country down the drain and they should be gone soonest.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...re-than-700000/

True, but only in a place where politicians love and care about what happens to their country. It does not happen in countries without border security and government officials that fight among themselves and get next to nothing done.

You proudly voted for that Jagermeister when you voted for Obama... twice.

You are not part of the problem. Idiots like you are the problem.

That is right I'm not part of the problem.

That's right... IDIOTS like YOU ARE the problem.

A problem that will receive no solution from either party. It has been going on for years and neither party shows any will to address the issue. Pew research article showing current levels of illegal immigration. Where were you rapid conservatives when this issue was at its peak under Bush 43? Looks like about a million less illegals per year less under Obummer.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/24/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Here is a prediction for you.....no matter who wins the 2016 election, the problem will continue. I have noticed at least a few leading Republicans such as Graham and Jeb have a strong grasp of the mathematics behind the issue. Very soon white people will become a minority in this country even if the borders were secure due to our low rate of reproduction and if you want to keep winning in the long term embracing Hispanics is a must. Now that Gay marriage has been settled illegal immigration is the far rights new rally call. A poor strategy for the long haul I'm afraid, though round 'em up and ship 'em home sure fires up the base.

While I do not think it practical all illegal aliens and their kids born here illegally should be deported.

Those children are US citizens by law and can not be deported....despite the foreign born Texas Senators suggestion.

That should only hold if the parents were here legally at the time those kids were born. Simple logic dictates those parents were non-grata therefore those children were born where those people came from.

Keeping in mind, I am only here to lie and obfuscate, whilest demeaning and eroding your national constitution, I happen to believe illegal immigration can be managed for fee.

I also think that putting farmers in jail for hiring them, fining contractors that are caught paying them, closing the Walmarts that provide financial services to them, and then ending subsistence social programs that feed them will gut the bottom end of illegal immigration.

At the top end, cherry pick the H1b's and E1's. 10 years of net paid federal income tax before entertaining a citizenship app. Family reunification for fee.

Draw a line in the sand. End 14th amendment birth rights. At midnight 2017.

Eliminate the attraction, and you won't have them.
Punish the source. Employer's.

But you would have to pay more for a tomato, or for concrete work, or painting.

But hey, I'm only here to lie and undermine your constitution.

Yes, that seems quite reasonable and that is why it would never work in the USA. The bottom line is if everyone followed the law and did what they supposed to we would not need to go through the expense of buildin "Wall of USA". The problems with most Americans is that they want their cake and eat it to. In real world things do work out that way.

How about taking a quick look at the source. 'Pew estimates based on residual methodology applied to March supplements to' three different surveys. I doubt you'd switch to a new stock finish based on mumbo jumbo like that, why would you take it as gospel just to attack political preferences that you don't like.

Do the math. If you believe your starting point under 43, death rates alone wouldn't reduce it to the claimed number today. Your article says bo's policy is the most significant protections against deportation since 1986. Are you claiming no illegals have crossed in to the US since Bush 43, and bo is 'protecting' prior illegals?

Far right rally call? You make it sound like a party platform, when you know Trump is the sole person who not only framed the topic in a specific nonpc way, but has the ability to deliver the message. Bo campaigned as a race baiting base stirrer, then in the general election he drifted towards the center, 'clearly' defining his views on marriage. Of course, by his leadership, the 'issue' was settled 180* to his campaign promises.

Why can't it be concluded that you criticize only one side for specific political agenda goals?

Not wanting larger bureaucracy (larger government) what wee need to do is round up those that want to deport them to handle the deportations for free. No salary and benefits. Would that work for you folks?

No, the donor class needs cheap labor under the ruse of competition.
I willingly admit I have felt the joy of hiring illegals. The way they cowed before me. Knowing that with but the wave of my hand, all they had could be lost. They shook like dogs before my mighty fist. they looked over their shoulders as I strutted around, waiting for the lash. Just like my setters.
And then when they expected to be paid full wages, I cheated them. I was absolutely drunk with power!

And, I made twice as much money on the concrete they finished.
I loved how they cooked their little burritos under the hood of their car.

And then there's those inscrutable chinamen at the local hog trough. I know they buy that fake chicken with food stamp money. And then they sell all I can eat for $6.99! I get my taxes back from those blood sucking leeches one plate at a time! And of course when I want a massage, their daughters are verry verry skilled. No doubt Grandma teaches them.

And don't get me started on those Haji's at the dirty little bodega down the street. That place is infested with them! I swear they are breeding them down in the basement.

No sirree, America is for 'mericans, and we best stamp out these lizards before there ain't none left fer us!

Not a lie, but not relaying your real world experiences with facts.

Once a pathway to citizenship, that makes you feel good, happens, are these righteous laborers going to continue to supply tomatoes and concrete for the same rate, or will labor and tax law 'adjust' the prices of your elitist example.

Your sanctuary cities are not out in the crop fields. Just because you poke fun at obfuscation, doesn't mean it isn't so.

Lefty Stevie SKB has offered up a link to information that is so full of obvious flaws that only an idiot would think that it is factual.

Here again, is the lie about the present numbers of illegal immigrants, 11.3 million in 2014. It appears that 11 million has been the magic acceptable number adopted by the Left. The number has been claimed at or around 11 million for well over a decade as hundreds of thousands pour across the border each year. As craigd advises, "Do the math." This alleged research shows that the number of illegals has been decreasing when anyone with eyes can see for themselves that it is increasing. Who is doing a census on undocumented and illegal people hiding in the shadows?

I am one Conservative here who was very critical of immigration and border security under Bush 43. It was also bad under Bush 41 and worse under Bill Clinton. But you have to be an idiot or an agenda driven liar to try to claim that the problem has lessened under Obama. The fact that it is attracting more attention because of the obvious increase in illegals is responsible for much of Trump's attraction to Republicans and Democrats who are sick of it.

Craigd, I make less money because of illegal immigration and the way it suppresses wages for bottom tier labor.

I am also serious that our big cities are violent $hitholes full of useable bottom tier labor.
I was serious about fee based labor. You want in? Pay me. 30 60 90 day tickets. Employer verification of eligibility to work. Big fines. Jail cells.

And adjust the constitution to end birth right citizenship.

This CrapperZapper is all over the toilet bowl this morning. First he tells us that farmers and contractors who hire illegals should be fined, then he claims that he himself used illegal immigrant labor.

It made him a lot of money, and it also caused him to make less money. How can that be?

He was drunk with power because of his illegal hiring practices, yet he says he wants it to end because it suppresses wages and violators should face big fines and jail. Is this guy on drugs... or what?

I think he should turn himself in for violating the law and most likely not paying Social Security taxes, Unemployment and Workers Comp Insurance, Health Insurance, etc. for his illegal alien employees. Better to do it now under Obama when their is practically blanket amnesty and extremely lax enforcement.

I just do not believe this is true in general. Inner cities do not have a 'usable' pool of labor. There is a potential pool, but facts say that potential is not able to be tapped.

Take detroit, a clear labor pool exidus, maybe not all bottom tier. How come illegal mexicans are tending crop fields and those workers headed elsewhere. If you felt the pressure of illegal competition for cheap labor, it was one of the rare example where legal citizens were willing to take the job, as you mentioned, for a price.

If you can truly identify usable bottom tier labor, then they shouldn't be paid to sit on their hindsides. There's your enforcement budget and then some, if there's a will to enforce.

I'm just here to tell lies Keith.

Anyone that thinks a set of hands from Mexico or China are any different than a set of hands from Chicago or NY or Philadelphia is being purposefully ignorant.

Is the labor in the location it's required? Nope. Before incentivising entrenchment of poor people, we incentivised migratory labor.

We have unsustainable growth in costs. We have labor market inefficiencies. We have a couple laws that need to be changed. And a bunch of others to be enforced.

It's all about the will to do something about it.

I am reminded of the Gordian knot. And Trump is claiming he's Alexander.

We can see that you're here to tell lies CrapperZapper. You still are running away from your recent lies about the DOE.

And we also know about the disincentivizing of the Welfare Class by Liberal Democrats and the failures of the Great Society. The alleged "Hand up--- not a hand out" has become multi-generational enslavement on the Democrat Plantation. And insanely high black unemployment has been accepted as the new norm while illegals perform work that taxpayer subsidized Welfare bums won't do simply because they do not have to. Is there any doubt that this extremely high black unemployment and welfare subsidized destruction of the black family has led to the extremely high violent crime and murder rates in the black community... or the subsequent and logical very high black prison incarceration rate?

There has been little or no will do do anything about it on either side of the aisle. But it is Liberal Democrats who most vehemently defend it and who dishonestly tell us that we can do nothing about it. Money was appropriated for construction of a Border Fence. Obama halted construction and essentially halted enforcement. His AG also sued Arizona for trying to do what the Federal Government refused to do.

I myself am not sure about Trump, but it is undeniable that he has tapped into a vast pool of discontent and disgust.

If I put dog crap in vacuum bags out on my porch with a sign that says "Free", people will line up to take it. Hell, they'll kill each other to get more than the other guy.

Cradle to grave freebies for momma and the kids, a room for grandma, free eats.
That's a whole lot better than my front porch.

Enforce the law.

But also do this.

Stipulate in all of your transactions that English must be spoken, and if you hear a word otherwise, you'll yank the contract. That's something you make as a condition of sale, and you'll be surprised at how well it works.

Even the little guy can disincentivise their workplace. But it will cost you more to do it.

But, if you want your flatwork, roofing, framing, drywall, painting, tile work, masonry done by criminals have at it. It's cheaper.

When I built my house and acted as General Contractor, I managed to sub-out poured concrete basement walls, basement and garage floors, excavation, roofing, exterior and fireplace stone masonry, and HVAC without a single illegal alien or criminal. I rejected several lower bids on jobs by contractors who looked shady.

I have no regrets, and it did not blow the budget. I saw what lurks behind the drywall in houses built by high-end contractors and know that I attained higher quality at a much better price.

I also do not blame a lot of lazy people for taking freebies from the government. But I do not pretend that there is no viable alternative to income redistribution in order to curry favor with a huge bloc of lazy dupes and fools. The ultimate costs of creating an entitlement class and a slave labor class will be the destruction of the fabric of our nation if it is not soon reversed.

Libtards like you don't seem to care. For all your tough talk, when next November comes around, I am sure you will pull the lever for Liberal Democrats who wish to maintain the status quo because being a career politician is more important to them than serving their country and their fellow citizens.

I hope I have something much better to choose from, and not just the lesser of two evils.

Thanks for calling me names keith. It makes the site so much better. I was hoping to be called something elegant like maybe "treasonous" or "unpatriotic". But nope, just the same ole same ole.

You shouldn't be afraid of people like me.
We employ people like you even when they won't shut up.

Because we just want the work done safely and with the same set of rules being equally applied to everyone we compete with.

Dis incentivise the use of undocumented labor. Start within your own home.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

is america still the last best hope for humanity?...

or have we become so self focused that we forgotten who we are?

I wouldn't knowingly work for someone like you CrapperZapper, and do not really think you are intelligent enough to run any business that I would seek employment in anyway.

I'm not a concrete laborer or a grass cutter. Sounds like you were very proud to Lord over unskilled illegals doing menial unskilled labor. And you broke the law. And you expect us to respect you??? What a joke.

I told you I had no problem building my home without the use of undocumented labor. I continue to have no problem maintaining it or or my land without them.

I do nothing to incentivize illegal immigration. You do. For all your tough talk and bullshit, it is obvious that you support and vote for anti-gun Liberal Left Democrats who do the most to perpetuate the problems of porous borders, lax enforcement, and disincentivizing the lower class from doing our labor and becoming upwardly mobile and independent citizens.

keet: you are an idiot!

I think the majority of Americans agree.

People with your liberal mindset is the reason our once great country is so screwed up.

Reading comprehension may not be your strong point Joe. At no point did I say I agreed with the law, but it is the law. Say hi to Frank for me.

I comprehend exactly your meaning....

A liberal quotes the law then believes it's okay for people to break the law and then be protected by the law.

Umm yes. We still need to treat illegals according to the law. Your lack of reading comprehension is showing again because the subject was not illegals, it was citizens who were born to parents who were illegal aliens. Please try to follow along.

Then you agree they should all be deported.

Yes I do, but they will not be. Neither party will enforce the law. We know that due to past history.

it just seems hypocritical to deport those who gave up all and risked all to come here...and like the rest of us are lucky enough to be here...

if the law is the issue, then perhaps it is time to change it.

I think we should deport idiots and keep smart people as Trump says.

Ed Good will be gone, gone, gone!

STFU Ed.

Dialog re illegals? Simple, your rulers despise “regular” Americans.

The objective isn’t cheap labor or imported voters. Those are just bonus features. The prime directive is to injure the working and middle classes in “flyover country” because they don’t like these people. The elites would very much prefer to rule 3rd world peasants than prosperous free people. Globalism helped them toward this end but, some work is impossible to send to other countries so, instead of exporting the work, they import the workers.

The government started by looking the other way. Now they openly encourage mestizos to come and “take the jobs Americans will not.” Or rather, the jobs Americans will no longer do because illegals drove down the wages.

If illegals don't drive down wages why is that "mexicans” dominate the “bid” trades? 25% of construction workers are illegals. Most are illiterate, even in Spanish, and they mostly do shitty work. Bureaucrats and diversity consultants thoroughly nitpicks public contracts to ensure contractors and consultants have the commanded percentage of MBE and DBE participation. On the other hand they look the other way when it comes to illegals.

A fence would be good for America. Therefore, there will be no fence. Even if by some miracle a fence is legislated, the feds will delay it for decades with environmental impact studies and so on.

Don’t worry, the upper classes do pretty well in 3rd world shitholes. Look at the Mexican elites.

guess some of us are so self focused that they have forgotten where most of us came from...and how we got here...unless you are an indian of course...

george bush the younger had a great idea to justify staying in iraq after we got rid of sa dame...exporting freedom...same reason why we joined the allies in ww1 and 2. same reason we went to korea and nam.

people come here from all over the world looking to share in what we have...freedom.

who are we to say: no, you can't share our freedom...it is ours not yours...how hypocritical is that?

oh an keet, you really are an idiot and a shameful one at that.

Every civilized nation on the planet has laws regarding immigration and control over their border sovereignty. Even Mexico would not permit what is happening to us. The idiot Ed Good thinks our immigration policy should be an open door and a welcome mat with no controls.

When this country was colonized by the Brits and others, there were no controls and no Ellis Islands. There was a vast largely unexplored land to exploit for the good of Kings and Queens in Europe. After the Revolution and the formation of a new nation, there was the natural need to control and enforce immigration to ensure a healthy and viable Republic. Hence our laws (which are no longer enforced).

Do what Ed Good recommends, and you are on a one way path to becoming a third world shithole. We are on our way thanks to Liberals and Libtards who cannot learn from history or connect the dots. We have already decimated the middle class and created a dependent permanent Welfare Class. We have doomed a generation of young blacks to chronic high unemployment and a fatherless lifestyle that breeds crime and indifference. We have brought in tens of millions of illegals as extremely cheap labor to suppress the wages and lifestyles of our children and grandchildren. But hey, it creates Democrat voters, so screw the country, and screw the grandkids.

And then we have Libtards like Ed, CrapperZapper, SKB, and King Brown wringing their hands in anguish over the widening wealth gap between the rich and poor. They are the mentally retarded idiots who supported it and voted for it, and even wish to expand it by granting amnesty to illegals who broke the law... and then they cry like babies when the very predictable results happen.

Sheesh, I thought you came from Florida and just drove up north. It's not that big a deal.

"Ed Good thinks our immigration policy should be an open door and a welcome mat with no controls"...

yes, and that is what has made our country unique and great!

we could do worse...

If I took ed's brain and put it in a flea's ear the son of a bi+ch would rattle like a BB in a railroad box car.

jrb: your place is here:

A PLACE FOR JUVENILE NAME CALLING

That is absolutely untrue Ed, and even an idiot like you should know it. I know legal immigrants and know what they had to do to get in line and get here legally. When my Dad passed away last year, we found a bunch of the immigration documents in his attic that were required on both ends for my immigrant Great Grandfather to legally come here. There were also papers relating to what he had to go through to actually become a U.S. citizen after he was here. He was not in the shadows, working for cash or using someone else's Social Security number to steal employment from a legal citizen who is stuck in a Welfare system.

You really are an idiot. Thanks for proving it once again.

ANTI-GUN POSTS by ED GOOD

how and when one got here is not important...the fact that one wanted to come here enough to abandon their homes and friends and their families to come here for a better life and live in freedom is what is important...the selfish, ungrateful and self focused dont see that.

Every civilized nation on the planet has laws regarding immigration and control over their border sovereignty. Even Mexico would not permit what is happening to us. The idiot Ed Good thinks our immigration policy should be an open door and a welcome mat with no controls.

When this country was colonized by the Brits and others, there were no controls and no Ellis Islands. There was a vast largely unexplored land to exploit for the good of Kings and Queens in Europe. After the Revolution and the formation of a new nation, there was the natural need to control and enforce immigration to ensure a healthy and viable Republic. Hence our laws (which are no longer enforced).

Do what Ed Good recommends, and you are on a one way path to becoming a third world shithole. We are on our way thanks to Liberals and Libtards who cannot learn from history or connect the dots. We have already decimated the middle class and created a dependent permanent Welfare Class. We have doomed a generation of young blacks to chronic high unemployment and a fatherless lifestyle that breeds crime and indifference. We have brought in tens of millions of illegals as extremely cheap labor to suppress the wages and lifestyles of our children and grandchildren. But hey, it creates Democrat voters, so screw the country, and screw the grandkids.

And then we have Libtards like Ed, CrapperZapper, SKB, and King Brown wringing their hands in anguish over the widening wealth gap between the rich and poor. They are the mentally retarded idiots who supported it and voted for it, and even wish to expand it by granting amnesty to illegals who broke the law... and then they cry like babies when the very predictable results happen.

If I wish to abandon my home and live in the White House to give myself and my family a better life, I guess I have that right according to Ed Good, the idiot.

keet: now you are getting silly, again...

Don't be so hard on yourself. I doubt you could see that most of the money gets sent back to mejico, and that they don't 'come' here for a better life. They 'bring' the old life that you claim they're running away from and impose it on the dups in their new country. What a deal, eh?

What part of what I said was either wrong or silly, idiot?

You are absolutely right craigd, about the transfer of wealth back to Mexico, and the unwillingness to assimilate or do things according to the law.

Last night, I heard a caller named Roberto on a radio talk show who called in simply irate over Trump's calls to deport 11 million illegals. He warned the host that the 11 million have plenty of guns (also illegal), and that if there is any effort to deport a single one of the illegals, there will be bloodshed on a scale worse than ISIS in Iraq. Look at the intent of La Raza. We have already been invaded, and it was permitted by blind idiots like Ed Good.

Here's a few points.

Illegals are allowed in order to create a new "Dependent Class" of the Welfare State. Essentially "Professional Democrat Voters" Another aspect of Cloward-Piven ideology.

Illegals don't contribute, but cheat the tax system as well. My cousin's wife prepared taxes for them. They always claimed enough dependents to receive the Earned Income Tax Credit, claiming nonexistent children and pets as dependents. A full audit of each is in order, those found to have committed tax fraud should be immediately deported.

If Democrats thought they would eventually become Republicans they'd be advocating machine-gunning them at the border.

Ken, your post is persuasive as usual, but I disagree with your premise that illegals (Hispanics in particular) will become a new permanent dependent class and permanent Dem voters.

No doubt some game the tax system, so do lots of republicans, maybe even some of us. And I agree tax cheats should be prosecuted and punished. The behavior you describe was probably taught by one of the liberal migrant outreach programs anyway.

That's a big part of our constant "need" for new and increased taxes, the failure to collect what our Country is owed in the first place. I don't like tax cheats.

However, based on a fair amount of contact with our migrant workers down here I find that the great majority are just struggling sincere family oriented people who want something better for their children than what they left South of our border. That's just my personal experience from personal contact, but it stands on equal footing with your cousin's wife's tax preparation experience.

I know that they will work harder than any other demographic we have the joy of living with down here. That work will result in an upward mobility which will I think translate into responsible citizenship within a generation.

I think the Democrat presumption of Hispanic "sorriness" is misplaced. The Hispanics I know will not be reliable slaves to the Welfare State...Geo

seems to be an anti hispanic thread developing here...as if hispanics are somehow our only illegal immigrants at the moment...

some of you here have such small focus...

be that as it may...but just look at the success of the cuban immigrant community in south florida...an hispanic immigrant success story to be proud of...

I would be nice to Hispanics who will be majority in not so distant future. If you play nice they might even let you good folks stay where you were born.

Oh, sorry Ed. There are a lot of other illegals and aliens who overstayed visas here. But the numbers pale in comparison to Mexicans and other Central Americans.

Illegal is still illegal, no matter how you slice it. But given a choice, I'd agree to keep 5 hard working illegals for every anti-gun idiot like you that we deported.

we are a nation of immigrants seeking freedom...how and when we all got here is not important...the fact that we all made it here is what is important...it is what make us exceptional...

and if our government wishes to reduce the number of immigrants, legal or otherwise, all it has to too is to enforce the existing immigration laws...fact is, our government does not enforce the existing immigration laws, so immigration continues without apparent control...this has been going on for in excess of fifty years now...so whats the problem?

your an idiot.

jagermeister, hispanics less than 20% of population.

mc: not here..but here:

A PLACE FOR JUVENILE NAME CALLING

Geo Newbern,the problem is most don't want to be Americans they want the benefits but want to send money home and ultimately have save enough to return.the second largest income after oil is money sent home from America .working off the books and sending tax free money home something like 50 billion, talk about tax cheats.but when you cheat the immigration line what can we expect.this is why we will never get any help at the mexican border from mexico.

and then there is this:

http://news.yahoo.com/austrian-police-least-20-migrants-found-dead-truck-112617678.html

immigrants earning money here and then sending some back to their relatives in the old country, so they to can afford to come here as well , is an old and honorable american tradition...

more fences and inspection at the border would stop this from happening. Hungary is just finishing there fence.greece has no money for illegal immigrants.european countrys dont want to be pulled into financial disaster that would be caused by tens of thousands of illegal immigrants.

The ones I know want to be Americans. Meanwhile their families are stuck in mezoamerica so they send their paychecks home to mama and the kids and live on dirt here.

I'm not disputing the cost to America, but just saying the cost is what we are paying for a broken immigration system. If Jeb or maybe even The Donald come up with a fix we will win the elections across the board...Geo

I've got a fix.

Deport the illegal aliens

Create a massive jobs program for citizens by starting a wall building program on the border with Mexico.

Repeat until no longer necessary.

and this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/photo-sums-slow-motion-tragedy-123900141.html

so, mikie when we deport the mothers of infant citizens, who is going to care for them?

Well, of course that mother is going to want to take her baby with her.

When he is old enough he can move back if he wants to. He is a citizen after all.

so, how old is old enough?

His mom and dad can decide that.

Of course, after he turns 16 or 18 he can decide for himself.

It is time for our side to quit obstructing the destruction of our Country and begin governing it! I see a chance this election season. It may be the last chance...Geo

Hey Geo, do you have a thought on this?

Does the Constitution, or any of its Amendments, or any law actually grant citizenship to the US born offspring of an Illegal alien, or legal alien for that matter? Is it fact or accepted interpreted opinion? Just wondering is all, no big deal if you don't.

That's hard to say Ed. I mean, look at you... you're how old? And you don't have the brains of a small child.

We do not have a broken immigration system. The one we have worked fine until it was decided by both Republicans and Democrats that we should ignore the system that was in place. What good will it do to institute a new system unless there are penalties for not enforcing the law?

I like Mike's ideas about deporting the illegals and building a wall, but first the illegal lawbreakers should be penalized by being sentenced to performing labor on the wall equal to the time they were here illegally. That might be a deterrent to them just sneaking back in.

Now there's a plan...

A farmer buddy of mine said one of his illegals was going home for a year. Said it cost him $400.00 for the bus ride home and $4000.00 to sneak back in.

I have a thought but not an answer. My thought is that breaking up familys is wrong. As to the constitutional question, I'm no more help.

The question turns on the words "under the jurisdition of" or something like that. Seems likely that the Court could hold that someone here illegally is not within our jurisdiction, hell we don't even officially know they're here.

On the other hand its always been accepted that if you can tag base by being born on US soil, you are automatically a citizen. Are foreign embassy staff who are here legally and who give birth here having American babies?...Geo

The way I see it keith, because we have allowed the invasion of illegal workers, we've created the problem and we need a 'fix' to solve it. I favor a wall with a door and a doorman charged with specific guidelines about who goes either way. i also believe that immigration is the issue that can win the 2016 elections ( or lose them)...Geo

Anne Coulter said something like "I am disappointed that my party is considering giving citizenship to three million Democratic voters."

As far as character, work ethic, ambition and general demeanor my experience with the Latino illegal aliens is that they possess all three. They are fine people. I have owned a construction and service company 35 years. If there were no employer sanctions I would much rather hire an illegal alien than an eighteen year-old citizen. I would have to baby the citizen. He is probably going to have to be fired from several jobs before he can show up on time on a regular basis. The illegal has that skill along with many others because he has worked full time since he twelve.

In general the illegal-aliens are religious, moral, and have strong families.

Most of my experience has been with the Mexican illegals, a little with the Central American illegals.

But citizenship has its privileges. When our unemployment rate is low and our employment rate is high then it is time for immigrants. That is not the current situation. And we abuse our young and minority citizens by not enforcing the laws that are on the books.

The Democrats are currently playing three-card-monty with their loyal Black constituency. They talk incessantly of inequality, "Black lives matter", and "immigration reform". Currently illegal aliens drive down Black employmentand Blacks' wages, They increase Black poverty rates and inequality. If the Republican nominee actively campaigns against amnesty and then does an ad campaign aimed at Blacks to explain what the Dems are doing to them I think he could convince enough of them to vote Republican (or to jus tstay home on election day) that he could win.

Bill Clinton was and is a sleaze ball. But he was a masterful politician. He would use focus groups to try out a possible campaign message. Then he would adjust that message and try it out on a new focus group. They called the process triangulation. I wonder if the Republicans have triangulated on opposing amnesty or if they are just going with what their United States Chamber of Commerce constituents tell them to do?

Sure Geo, that's the way it is... or at least the way it was until politicians on both sides for differing reasons lost the will to enforce Federal law. Some wealthy Republicans saw a source of cheaper labor, and Democrats saw a potential huge voting bloc. And that's why the top three Republican candidates are non-politicians. People are fed up with being invaded and being told that nothing can be done about it.

The wall was not so much physical as it was enforcement and regulation of who got to come in, and how many got to come in. The doors were U.S. ports of entry like Ellis Island where millions of immigrants came in with some semblance of order and control. The open borders people like Ed Good are totally out of their minds and obviously have given no thought to the ramifications of such a policy... even though we are getting a little preview.

I always get a kick out of the Liberals here when they hold up Reagan's amnesty as proof that Republicans are at the heart of the current problems. What they don't tell you is that Reagan's amnesty was part of an agreement to fix the problem of the porous border and to improve border security, enforcement, and stem the tide. The Democrats reneged on that part of the agreement which ought to provide the lesson that you would be wise to not compromise with cheaters and liars.

Pretty good thinking, Mike. Only to add, while all this is going on, the Republican Party in disarray for a long time, is killing itself with the country's largest minority group and the fastest-growing minority group, by going along with a sulphurous buccaneer who'll blithely walk away at the end, leaving the GOP in ruins.

Except that we have both houses of congress. And we have most of the governorships, and more states have both Republican legislatures and Governors than those states that have both Democratic legislatures and Democratic governors.

You, along with the Democrats, assume that minorities are going to always be Democrats. The Latinos I know believe in work, low taxes, and think abortion is murder. Look how long it took those Southern White Democrats to decide to vote for Reagan after the Federal judges ordered them to bus their kids across town.

My son is a mechanical engineer. He thought he was a Democrat until he looked at his first after-graduation paycheck stub.

I also agree with King, pretty good thinking.

If the will is to look the other way, then efforts should be made to keep illegals in the shadows, and remove the gray areas that lets them dabble as citizens.

All of Mike's attributes require operating out of the shadows, and as he notes, will not come from citizens.

Thanks for giving my question a go Geo. I wouldn't want to tear any family apart either, but as noted, there's a voluntary break up of the family as verified by the flow of dollars towards Mexico, Just five years ago, when dems held congress, a half hearted attempt was made by them to leave anchor baby 'accepted policy' in the hands of the courts and remove it from potential lawmaker clarification.

Why personal attacks? There have been literally hundreds of sulphurous quotes here from bo/reid/pelosi. Sure they had more than a few on the campaign trail, but how come they get to continue while in office and 'leading'. In ruins? If he's the nominee why not let him tac towards the center like they all do.

Talking about sulphurous things spewing, the Canadian culture is showing. How come dal only unadios's to spew f-bombs. I know it's all you can do to restrain yourself, well that and the forum auto censor, but those traditions seem to be falling by the wayside. I weep for Canada and her direction. What can we do to help?

I call bullshit. Total bullshit. Huge fermenting piles of bullshit. I can’t believe you said that.

First of all, the decent hard working moral and religious illegals will run the 18 year old gringo off the job, usually in a manner that sends the gringo to the emergency room. But, the gringo will still be treated far better than the Mayates. Cholos hate those guys. The Guatemalan crew needs to be kept away from the Mexican crew or fights break out, work is sabotaged, tools are stolen, etc. You have to segregate your jobsite or be very careful which illegals your hire.

The ugly truth is that illegals are the most ethnocentric and nationalistic bunch of bigots you will ever encounter. The “enlightened” people fretting over Trump’s racist statements haven’t spent any time on construction sites that use illegals. I'm off to visit one right now...

One other thing. Those who think illegals are future Catholic Americans need to keep one thing in mind. Illegals actually have very little interaction with Americans. They mud American drywall, cut American lawns, wash American dishes but, they eat, work, live, and sleep with other illegals. It’s all in-group. Mexican Americans don’t even want them around. You would be shocked by Caesar Chavez opinions on illegals (hint: same as Trump's)

I reported my experience will illegals accurately. And that experience runs from Texas farming in the sixties through 40 years in commercial and industrial construction, up to today.

I don't know if you read my entire post or just Craig's quote of it. But I am certainly for deporting them so we have those jobs back for poor citizens.

I am not fretting over Trump's remarks about illegal aliens. I don't see his remarks as racist. I think he is right about deporting them.

If you read my entire post you will see I said that the Republican nominee, by running a anti-illegal-alien campaign aimed at Blacks, might pull in enough Black votes or at least persuade enough to stay home on election day for the Republican to win.

But if you're not hiring them, what experience do you really have?

Blacks are never going to vote republican in any numbers that matter. Neither will Latinos.

I grew up on a farm. It was common to have Mexican nationals, mostly illegal, on the farms.

Back when we had enforcement of the immigration laws, I have seen immigration show up on a job site and arrest twenty-five roofers and more than once.

And certainly I have to meet the law when hiring. And I meet all the requirements of the law. How do you know they are illegals? And if you know they are illegals on that construction site why wouldn't you turn the contractor in to ICE? It is unfair to the contractors that follow the law and hire only citizens to have to compete with those contractors hiring illegal aliens.

The Republican nominee won't need to get a majority of Black votes to win. And if significant numbers of 80% Democratic-voting Blacks stay home on election day that is almost as effective.

I grew up and have lived all my life in a Southern state, Texas. I remember when died-in-the-wool White Southern Democrats turned en masse and started voting for Republicans. I am one of them. I was a Democratic precinct chair in the seventies for a couple of years. My cousin was the district attorney, first as a Democrat and then as a Republican.

Was that before or after the sex change ?

What's the last three letters of democrat? RAT
nuff' said

jOe he switched parties in the early eighties.

When did you get your sex changed?

What did expect from a man/she that frequents perverted websites ?

I don't know jOe.

My cousin switched parties in the early eighties.

When did yOu get your sEx chAnged?

I know they are illegals because the superintendents flat-out tell me so. The illegals buy a valid SS for $50 and claim 9 dependents. Seems everybody looks the other way. I agree it is unfair, although when everyone does it maybe it isn’t unfair? I’m not sure ICE or the IRS even care. Denver is a sanctuary city. If our Governor can hire illegals to work in his restaurants, I guess a concrete contractor should have the same privilege. A sad state of affairs.

The illegal alien has shown up with a proper SS number and ID. So that employer that hired him met the law. The contractor sends in his quarterly reports to the Fed and the SS money for that illegal alien, but not under the illegal's real name of course. The alien stiffs us for the income tax.

It has been that way my whole life.

But if we deport that illegal he won't be able to do that.

Not true. There is a "reasonable man" test for the I-9 revue. It is pretty easy to spot a phony SS card if you know what you are looking at. And any employer who actually wants to comply with the law should be using e-Verify. Those who don't use it are either lazy or stupid, or just don't want to know that their hires are illegal. Plausible deniability, and everybody looks the other way. Assholes.

The "reasonable man" test? If I advertise a job and a Latino applies for it and his paperwork and SS appear to be in order and I don't hire him because I am suspicious that he is an illegal alien then Mr. Obama's justice department or a plaintiff's lawyer might be interested in taking me to court. Especially if I am a large contractor (I"m not). Maybe for violation of discrimination laws, maybe for profiling.

As Ryan says, his mayor and the Feds are looking the other way.

And that "reasonable man" contractor that acts on his suspicions and uses everify is competing directly with contractors that aren't using everify. I have found that price is important in contracting, especially so in commercial construction.

This Wiki article on Everify is interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify#Federal_government

It says that some states have even passed laws to discourage the use of everify, California being one of them.

But if we make it our policy to pro-actively find and deport illegal aliens none of this will matter.

Old joke:

You know what Davey Crockett said at the Alamo? "I wonder where Santa Anna got all those cement finishers." The other version is "roofers".

Look at King Pinnochio Brown wringing his hands over Trump while he has offered up unwavering support for the inexperienced loser Obama who is leaving the whole nation in ruins.

But King can always and only be counted upon to support and defend Liberal Left Democrat Anti-gunners. He tries to lie to us and say he is pro-gun, but except for owning some guns... if we can believe him... everything he does is that which undermines gun rights in this country. He does nothing to advance gun rights in Canada. It is probably a blessing for Canadian gunner that he does nothing. With his great leadership and his LULLING concessionary advice, they would soon lose what gun rights they still have.

"the whole nation in ruins."

don tink so...the only pres to leave this nation in ruins was one a. lincoln, who got his just reward at the hands of the martyr booth.

Yeah, we're doing great idiot. Chronic hidden high unemployment, wage stagnation due to massive illegal immigration and foolish trade deals, the Middle East is a disaster, We can't beat a little 50-75,000 man army called ISIS, race relations are at a 50 year low, we have a record National debt and massive deficit, over 200 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, Health Care costs still rising faster than inflation...

Shall I go on idiot? Or are you happy with your anti-gun Obama like your anti-gun pals King and Jagermeister are?

Look at King Pinnochio Brown wringing his hands over Trump while he has offered up unwavering support for the inexperienced loser Obama who is leaving the whole nation in ruins.

But King can always and only be counted upon to support and defend Liberal Left Democrat Anti-gunners. He tries to lie to us and say he is pro-gun, but except for owning some guns... if we can believe him... everything he does is that which undermines gun rights in this country. He does nothing to advance gun rights in Canada. It is probably a blessing for Canadian gunner that he does nothing. With his great leadership and his LULLING concessionary advice, they would soon lose what gun rights they still have.

Craig I gave your question short shrift. I left the answer with the query about the children of foreign diplomats, thinking someone would would take up the answer. Here's a more complete answer regarding the question of birth citizenship which I posted on another forum:

Glad to know that The Donald has said he would not mount a 3rd party campaign. Still, his possible nomination as the republican candidate is problematic in my mind. He has gained a lot of traction on his position on birth citizenship. I think that is an issue for the Courts to unravel and not a reason for any legislative attempt to amend the 14th.

The issue will turn on the qualifier phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". As worded the 14th Amendment makes all born on American soil citizens by birthright. There were three carve-outs to that right: children of foreign diplomats, enemy soldiers, and American Indians who were still, at the time considered semi-sovereigns and self governing. In 1898 the Supreme Court in US Vs. Wong Kim Ark determined that the jurisdiction phrase meant subject to the laws of the USA. It would appear that since then, both illegal immigrants and American Indians qualify for birth citizenship.

I suppose a new "final" decision on the matter could find illegal aliens not subject to our jurisdiction since we don't know they're here, but they are certainly subject to our laws. JMHO but I don't think it is likely that the courts will change anything or that anything should be changed.

Just close the border and enforce our laws...Geo

Who isn't subject to our laws besides those with diplomatic immunity? There are Constitutional lawyers who are arguing that the Framers intent concerning the word Jurisdiction differed from the current interpretation.

At any rate, Mike is correct that the parent who is illegal should still be subject to the law and deported. The 14th does not grant amnesty to the non-citizen parent. The criminal parent is highly unlikely to leave without the child. Then it becomes a matter of amending the amendment to avoid future abuse and confusion. And the question becomes... will it be ratified by 2/3 of the States, or will the people continue to permit lawbreakers to steal their jobs, rob them of their tax dollars, increase their Health Care costs, create wage stagnation, etc.? Open borders sounds nice on paper, but the true costs are becoming more apparent to more people by the day.

Thank goodness we have someone paying attention to the threat from the north.....(sarcasm for those not familiar the common literary device)


http://news.yahoo.com/walker-says-wall-canadian-border-worth-reviewing-132533027.html

If anyone is interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

Read this too. The author of the Citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment explained what the words said and what they meant:

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-morr...itutional-right

Geo, you ended up offering a bunch more time than I was figuring you might. I noticed keith put up a link, I don't know what it says yet, but that case you mentioned seems to be the case that sets the precident.

I guess what I was wondering was if the typical anchor baby mom, which makes up about eight percent of all US births, is an integrated productive person residing in the US, or one of the catch alls mentioned later in an opinion and not part of the decision.

You're an idiOt...

Well I see I was correct in that any exchange with you soon ends up in childish name calling.

Maybe you could articulate for me the case for building a wall on the Canadian border? It is the most asinine idea I have heard in some time in my opinion. Please go ahead and lay out a well reasoned argument for the implementation of such a wall. I'm an open minded guy about this J0e. I dying to hear your well thought out response..........

You already said if he were the candidate, you'd stay home and not even vote. Isn't it asinine to come out of the woodwork for a personal attack against a candidate from a nonvoter. King might say the republican is required to make their case and stump with civility, while opponents can counter with name calling. Weird, huh.

Boy Craig you have that whole victim thing down pat. Seeing as how we are yet to find out who will be the party nominee I think there is still a good chance I will vote. Notice I said it was an asinine idea but did not call anyone a name.

How about that well reasoned argument? With family close to the border with Canada I am concerned for any threats they may be under. Why is it we need that wall? Are they stealing our jobs? Anchor babies? Who knows, maybe those damn Canucks are really a bunch of Jihadist in disguise.......

You only need the wall constructed in more densely populated areas. The rest could be patrolled by high tech surveillance plus US military units through rotation system. The troops from oversees could participate in these rotations. For example with many NATO members in Europe I see no reason to station US troops in Eastern Europe.

Whoa Steve, me too. It's just the idea that's asinine.

As for the Canadian border, just ask Jm, he seems to think so. Me, I don't know a whole bunch about Canada, so I've had 'conversations' with King.

Just in the last couple of years, there's been a disturbing trend towards more and more violence, but in truth Canadian gun violence has been on the rise for generations, coinciding with the influx of middle easterners. Across Canada, they're implementing bits and pieces of sharia into local and national law. The waterways around Canada are known open pathways to all of North America for jihadi's.

I'm a 'concerned' victim already, because tails always wag the US dog and the jihadis don't need disguises. You draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion......a fabricated problem in a lame attempt to get people to the voting booth....reminds me an awful lot of the fictitious "war on women".

I'm still waiting for a reasonable argument validating the idea on wall between the US and Canada.

Shari law is NOT part of the Canadian law system but it sure does sound scary.....

http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/sharia-law-canada.htm

The way things are going in the USA I would say Canadians should construct a wall separating them from the United States. It is the Canadians that should be concerned not the other way around.

Hey Steve, I'm with you on that Canadian law thing. Don't shoot the messenger, it's nothing more than 'conversation'. I'm all for keeping it civil.

I have a little issue here though. There isn't a bit of similarity with 'the fictitious war on women'. I can't determine anything 'reasonable' about the use of 'fictitious'. It may be used as window dressing occasionally by some that lean left, but it's never really questioned, huh.

Interesting eh, something may be believed to be fictitious, but it's just not enough to try to stop them in the booth. I think you may be a Cruz fan. My understanding is that only three donors are funding the majority of his campaign so far. Are you one of them? Seems a little fabricated, eh.

Both issues are completed fabricated to stir up the base Craig and I'm pretty sure you can see that as well.

So why do we need that wall?

I'm no Cruz fan.........

I, only me, think we 'need the wall' in this limited example because it points out the disparity that folks should keep in mind when we kid ourselves that it should be about the issues.

As far as why a candidate, Gov. Walker, thinks we need a wall, we should probably be asking him. If he has good reasons, then he makes his case even if we don't like him. If he's stirring up the base, then we accept that as the 'punks game' like we've been told to accept tripe, when the strategy is used by the left.

If the issues are really important to us, and he doesn't make his case, then it should reflect on him and his candidacy. Did I mention he also hates workers, yup, all of 'em, bad, bad fellow, he is.

Walker doesn't think the US needs a wall. He said it's worth reviewing. The poor guy was asked a silly question. Running for office, he tries to please everyone.

Media runs with it. CBC national radio carried it this morning as a parting kicker, the last item for a smile; crazy American politics.

It should be no reflection on Walker. He played to the peanut gallery as politicians are obliged to do.

Lefty Stevie, a.k.a. SKB must be crushed to see a devoted fellow Liberal like King admit that Walker didn't actually say we need a wall between the U.S. and Canada. The "worth reviewing" part includes border security everywhere... not just the relatively low risk Canadian border, and the fact that as many as 30-40% of illegals came in under visas which they overstayed.

The Mexican border is as porous as a tennis racquet, and the easiest obvious choice for brown skinned Islamic terrorists to enter. But the problem is widespread, and when, not if there is another attack, there will be another Patriot Act type of over-reaction to today's sheer negligence. Then the Libtards will be whining about infringements upon free speech, privacy, etc. I will agree with them on that, but I will also know that it was largely their inaction and their support for open borders that precipitated it.

To hell with a wall from California to Boca Chica on the Gulf of Mexico.....
I'm all for putting a wall around Texas and helping the few single digit IQ liberals here over the wall into Louisiana or Oklahoma where their survival would be in definite jeopardy.

solution:

increase immigration quotas for fit hispanic males...

make their service in armed forces a requirement...

create army of liberation...

invade mexico and central america...

move u.s border to north shore of panama canal...

problem solved.