For the past several years I've enjoyed following this board. It's always been decent and civil, with a consistent focus on our common interest in double guns.

The couple times I've logged on recently the board has been full of racist and misogynistic comments, as well as political rants. This stuff is outside the scope of polite conversation, and it never used to happen. Now it's not only happening, but appears to be tolerated by both members and moderators.

What the heck is going on? This place used to be great. Now it seems to be full of angry blowhards. Any chance we can recover some decency, or is it just a different crowd these days?

Where are these racist and misogynistic (misoginistical, perhaps?) comments which are getting your panties all bunched up? With 60 posts in 6 years, it's obvious you don't know much about what goes on here. 2008, when you first registered here, was a presidential election year. You would have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to have missed the political rants. What I really find indecent and uncivil is dishonesty.

And why did you put this thread here rather than in Misfires?

Since we obviously must be in Misfires, this would be a good opportunity to remind everyone to call, write, aand e-mail your Congressmen about your feelings on restricting the Second Amendment Civil Rights of law abiding gun owners. Register to vote and support the Gun Rights candidates instead of voting for anti-gunners and then expecting them to respect your rights. Join or renew your membership in the NRA... the cheapest gun insurance you can buy to preserve your RKBA. Get a gift NRA membership for a kid you know. Only $25.00 right now. Makes a great Graduation gift that keeps on giving.

I am not being dishonest in any way. I posted this here because the comments I'm referring to are on the main board. I've never even been on the Misfires section of the board.

On the front page of the board right now there are posts including the following ideas:

Women who golf are lesbians.
Women ought not shoot guns.
Women belong in the kitchen.

Obama's race is relevant to his political judgements and our assessment of them.

I can pull direct quotes if you'd like.

If most people here think this stuff is okay, then I'm in the wrong crowd.

I also have no idea who this guy may be but There has been multiple posts on this forum primarily in the Misfires area discussing the extreme racism that exists within the current administration.
Has there been any threads here endorsing Racism? HELL NO!

Mysogynistic Posts?? I've never seen one here. If this guy didn't have 60 posts i'd immediately dismiss him as a troll.

I'd recommend Dave move this thread. No not to Misfires but to the trash bin.
Jim

One need only look at the Fausti thread in THIS forum.

Oh oh ... Caleb, you've predictably become a target. Apparently you don't visit the Misfires forum -- that's the designated locale for this stuff.

I'm afraid many here don't have enough credentials to express a contrary opinion without being accused of perfidy. Now don't ask me, I don't know what credentials one needs to have a differing opinion tolerated without drawing insult. Still haven't seen that happen. Even if your gun crank credentials appear impeccable, they'll be declared a smoke screen for closet subversiveness.

Maybe it's YOU that's been spamming to take down the site, and making all the extra work for Dave!! Scouts honor -- it's not me!

Jay

I just completed a board search for "lesbians" and came up with one post and it's from the one that started this thread.
Jim

Try it singular Jim -- as noted before, you'll find it in the Fausti thread.

Jay

Thanks, I guess this stuff has been spawning under my nose without me realizing it. Now it's migrating to the main board and I'm seeing it for the first time. I do wish that it would stay in its designated area rather than infecting the general board.

I hadn't even looked at the Fausti thread because I have no interest in them. You should have been more specific and said that it was Run With The Fox who was posting things which are denigrating to women. We have tried to get him to stop but to no avail. Surely he has a mother, sister, wife, daughters, or granddaughters. You'd think he'd show a little respect, and also realize that many women support and participate in the shooting sports. But please don't act like this behavior from him is anything we haven't see before. It has certainy been here in the main forum too. But you are aparrently a very infrequent visitor. I don't expect we will ever get him to change, so most of us just ignore it. And please don't paint the whole board with the actions of one man. I'd bet a beer I could find that he said something similar in 2008.

Now if you really want to see some seriously misogynistic stuff, you ought to read the vile, filthy, disgusting things that nca225 said about my daughters last year after the Newtown school shootings. And he's one of those Liberal Democrats who made a big fuss about Mitt Romney putting women's profiles in binders. He also pretends to be a gun guy, but has strongly supportet the restrictions on the Second Amendment which are advanced by Barack Hussein Obama & Co.

Aptly termed.

I hate to say it, but the real fault lies with Dave.

He tolerates this stuff, and because he does, one can only assume he endorses it (or lacks the will to stand up to it).

Letting it continue under the guise of "open discourse" is just lame. He provides the forum, and it's his responsibility to direct its tone and direction. Other boards are moderated and this kind of BS doesn't seep into the main areas and stink up the experience for everyone else.

Dave's "hand's off" approach has put the board where it is today. Apparently he likes it as is and approves of where it is headed (which is to new lows every day).

And Italian, if you or anyone else sends me another charming PM, I'm going to post it in the open forum area. Be forewarned.

OWD

And I'll make the same charming be forewarned "recommendation" to you.

As usual you're F O S.

Let's see these racist and misogynistic posts you're claiming are here.

I searched "lesbian" singular and come up with one poster using this term in the untold thousands of posts on this board. And yes it's in the Fausti thread.
I usually don't say anything publicly but I've PMed RWTF in the past and asked him to consider what he's posting before he posts it. I know it's not my responsibility but I for one do care.

As far as 'racism" goes several of us have been labeled "Racist" because of our strong dislike for the current administration. This is a common Libtard ploy when they can't refute the truth thats come out about the utter decadence of this bunch socialists.
It then becomes "lets play the race card and that will gag them". To me this has always been ironic coming from those that support an administration that as racist as they come
Jim

yawn...

Caleb, until now one could avoid the worst of the venom by staying away from Misfires, but recently even reading the main board requires donning a HazMat suit and undergoing decontamination after. A few members are still foaming at the mouth because there is a black man in the White House; you can just see them typing the second 'g' before catching themselves and changing it to 'Kenyan' or 'Negro'. The rabies slobber is starting to leak into the main forum and the rest of us get splattered.

Hi Caleb:

In the lower right hand corner of this post is a button marked "Notify". It is in the lower right hand corner of every post.

If you click it it will notify Dave that you think the post is objectionable. You can type in the box why you think it should be removed or moved.

Fox mostly posts mostly inane comments that are almost always spurious to the original topic. Most of us ignore him. I agree that the opinion he expressed on women in shooting sports is rude, chauvinistic, and politically incorrect. But being exposed to the expression of stupid opinions and prejudices is part of living in a free society. If everyone ignores his stupid post it is kind of like a pigeon crapping on the sidewalk. If we try to correct him it becomes more like a ton of cow manure dumped in the living room.

Many times racism is in the eye of the beholder. But there is no doubt in my mind racist comments are made here. There is no doubt in my mind racist comments are also made in the New York Times, The Huffington Post, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh's radio show and MSNBC.

So if you want a nice, polite, closely moderated and politically correct shotgun BBS you are going to have to go to The Shooting Sportsman board or Shotgun World.

As someone else pointed out this is a MisFires topic. If I wanted to I could "Notify" Dave and he might decide to move it to MisFires. Or he might decide I am full of it and leave it here.

Best Wishes,

Mike

Don't you just love how Leftist get to decide what is "decent and civil" ?

What a whiney bunch.

Wow! Someone starts a thread about the incivility of certain posters and this pops up. As PostOak points, funny how it's always okay for some to behave this way but not others. I'll take RWTF'S silly and antiquated comments about women any day over crap like this!

Yep James:
And please note most of these complaining "posters" have very low count numbers. I wonder why and how they've all just "discovered" this non-issue to complain about??
ONE poster uses the word "lesbian" in the untold thousands of threads here so now we're all misogynists!
Now; You don't suppose there's some sort of hidden agenda here?

Good thing no one has to choose RWTF's stuff over this. But you're totally right, rudeness and name-calling comes from all sides, and reflects only on the speaker.

Jay

Calebg, it does happen from time to time, people like yourself talk about women, politics and their opinion on various agenda's..... Just happens here on the main board once in awhile I guess ....?......Maybe you should try a more "sterile" board and you would be happier.....?



1-08-12 Very interesting main board post by calebg himself, the original poster now whining....:


Yup, Five stars for postoak:

Jim, I don't know who you're including in "we're", but I can't see how Caleb's criticism of negative comments about women shows intent toward anyone but the poster of those comments. "Hidden agenda" here is truly a mystery.

Jay

Hey- I'm NOT a mysogynist- Hell, I don't even visit any OB-GYNs on a regular basis, as I do my dentist- I believe women are the fairer sex, and are to be protected and cared for by the menfolk- the way my father and both grandfather taught me-- My granddad told me that there things that are a man's birthright- that women have NO business being involved in- back in his day, they called the Feminists and Lesbians- Hoydens"--and earned run average was the ONLY meaning for ERA-- The things that are a man's domain in his era all started with the letter P- Politics, Shooting Pheasants and Pool (14 & 1 straight pool, call the pocket, no "slop" and snooker and billiards too-Poker, and taking a pee behind a tree when you are in the woods. Protective of my Grandmother Rose- Hell yes- a alccholic neighbor made an indecent proposal to her face, and Grandfather Sean, son of a Belfast Mick Green Irish bareknuckle prize-fighter (and Ship's Millwright at Harlan & Wolfe until 1909) put the sad sorry sod into the hospital for 3 months-- None one my wives or daughters or granddaughters (as of yet)have shown any interest in Guns and Gunning as of yet- except my oldest granddaughter- Sophia Anastasia Cantana-- so in another year, I'll start her with the same Stevens .22 Walnut Hill single shot my Dad gave me at age 10--But win, lose or draw, you can bet your sad sorry ass that NONE of my family will ever point a gun at anyone, or pick one up and play with it as they might a set of, say, crochet needles -- as far as the old German/European concept of women belonging with the: Kinder, Kirch und Kuchen-- children, Church and in the kitchen--if we more of that concept in pour Christian world in America today, we would have less welfare dependency, child abuse, and ghetto crime-- Nothing mysoggy about that, ey wot, Gov???

Thanks-- glad you know how to keep my ramblings in the right perspective- I am "Old School" that's for sure--

LOL, Jay, yes I too am glad I don't have to make that choice. Like many, I would prefer this stuff to be in misfires, if only to keep the peace. Not sure why it's here. And, as anyone who follows misfires would know, I prefer politeness to slander.

But and it's a big but (not speaking to you here Jay but any reader), I resent efforts to suggest that talking about these issues aren't important to gun owners. I live in a country where we didn't talk about it for a long time. You won't like the results.

And truthfully, I kinda like RWTF's posts on the subject of women. It reminds me the old days weren't necessarily the good old days.

Gunflint Charlie:
I specifically stated complaining "posters" to EXCLUDE non complaining posters such as you.
Sorry if you mis-intrepreted my post.

Doug:
I guess I should have searched the forum for "poorly trained monkey"!
Jim

You got that right and they are usually the first to start the name calling like this clown- Greg Elliot,and then cry like a little girl to Dave to ban anyone who fights back !

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=368466&page=6





_________________________

Jay, maybe you ought to read calebg's initial post where he says this place seems to be full of angry blowhards (plural). If he had a problem with Foxy, maybe he should have addressed just that, and certainly not in this section. He still hasn't shown us the racism. Sorry that I missed the negative comments about women. As I've said a hundred times, I don't look at everything here. Nobody forces me to click on things I don't like.

I'm also sorry I missed calebg's negative comment about Meg Whitman. Nice catch Doug (PA24). People who live in glass houses maybe oughta' not throw stones. Certainly, calebg must have seen a lot of extremely negative words written about Sarah Palin by some of the same folks who are all up in arms about misogyny. Of course, I might as well get it on the table right now. I despise Hillary Clinton for the same reasons I despised her husband. Being a woman has nothing to do with it. Any gun guy who votes for her might as well hear now that she is as anti-gun as Obama. Canvasback is absolutely correct about the efforts to silence the message about the very real threat we face. Only difference between Hillary and Bill is that Bill is/was a sexual predator. But again, many of the anti-misogyny folks here gave him a pass for raping Paula Jones and Jennifer Flowers, and exploiting a young female intern named Monica Lewinsky in the Oval Office. And then he lied under oath to Congress about it.

Gregg Elliot, were you perhaps one of them? And if this board is officially dead, why do you keep coming back? Necrophilia perhaps?

RWTF, do ya think maybe it's time to just leave Grandpa's pre-suffrage attitudes about a woman's place back in the early 20th century where they belong???

As much as I disagree with OWD's polical views, I think he's right about this forum heading south. I'm growing tired of this constant barrage of political infighting and all that stuff. I'd rather read about gun related things. It's somewhat understandable with all this terrible stuff in the news, but I'd rather get depressed watching the news than get depressed reading the stuff here. I wish some of the folks that inundate us with all this political stuff would take a break for awhile and start talking guns again, which is what this forum is about. In a sense, it's too bad IMO, that Dave started Misfires. He did it, i believe hoping it would take all that stuff away from the gun related forums, but it appears that backfired because Misfires material is all over the main shotgun forum now, and habitually so.

buzz:
You have the easiest decision here. If you don't like the political discussions in Misfires then DON'T GO THERE!. Now that's pretty simple isn't it.
The political threads that have been started in the main section of the forum have been started by troublemakers who IMO are closet anti-gun individuals.
This thread IMO was nothing more then an attempt to stir up trouble for those on here who genuinely are committed to preserving our gun rights in the hopes Dave would shut down discussion entirely like the Libtards have done in the "mainstream news media" and on other forums.

I don't know about that Buzz, if what you are talking about is the rancorous political stuff. I read this forum pretty regularly, main board and misfires, among other sections. I don't see it. There are two recent threads, including this one, started on the main board by people complaining about Misfires. I would say that those of us interested in the political component of Misfires tend to keep our discussion there.

Now, I could be proven wrong because I have better things to do than sift through hundreds of threads on the main board. But I doubt that a careful examination would find "Misfires material is all over the main shotgun forum now, and habitually so."

Buzz, I agree with Jim and canvasback. And most of the recent off topic threads that obviously belonged in Misfires were initiated by those who would complain about a Second Amendment topic in a heartbeat.

And since their threads are fare for Misfires, I feel we should be able make a plug for gun rights and the NRA whenever they decide to pollute the DoubleGun forum with their off-topic crap and whining. That'll get them moved to Misfires in a hurry... like this one just did.

In fact, the last few Second Amendment threads which managed to survive in the DoubleGun forum for any length of time were kept very civil and informative by the guys who favor seeing those important topics on the front page. If you pay attention to who makes a fuss about gun rights topics, and also pay attention to their politics, it becomes obvious that most are intent upon silencing any criticism of their extreme anti-gun candidates. Many of them would be thrilled to eliminate Misfires completely for just that very reason. They are outnumbered by pro-gun conservatives. Now who woulda thunk that on a shotgun website??? The rest just don't want to see any mud-slinging, but we seem to always get that anyway. And if you'll notice, those threads which get a little contentious always seem to have the most views... by a wide margin.

The folks who say they can't stand seeing them also can't seem to stop reading them. I'm not sure how we explain that. Hypocrisy perhaps?

For me it is closer to driving by a bad wreck. I don't want to look but sometimes I can't help myself. But certainly I am responsible if I see something I didn't want to see.

Keith,

Caleb reacted to posts in the main forum, acknowledged he was unaware of the "Misfires" forum.

I know his summary complaint was about plural posters, but still don't see where he or others attributed misogyny to anyone's posts but RWTFs. And I remain mystified by suspicion of unidentified posters harboring a "hidden agenda".

I also don't understand the suggestion that Caleb's criticism of a CA politician catering to CA's prevalent anti-gun politics somehow discredits his reaction to what he saw as objectionable remarks. His political criticism seemed to me straightforward and cogent.

Often happens in this kind of discussion that I feel like my wheels are spinning, not getting much of anywhere.

Jay

Yes, this is how I see it too Mike.

Jay

Here is the core of Calebs original post which goes to the crux of the issue.:

"The couple times I've logged on recently the board has been full of racist and misogynistic comments, as well as political rants. This stuff is outside the scope of polite conversation, and it never used to happen. Now it's not only happening, but appears to be tolerated by both members and moderators. "

I await ANYONE posting evidence of racist and misogynic comments in the main area of this board or even in Misfires. This should be an easy task since the board is apparently "full" of them.




And furthermore; I think it's fair and essential to ask this question. Why would someone who is an infrequent visitor to this board make such a bizarre and patently false statement?

As this is now in Misfires, I'll leave it alone after this post. I assume that means that any and all politics will now be in Misfires where they belong, too.

As for those who say that I have been stirring up trouble by finding something that isn't there: gender has no place in criticism; race has no place in criticism; sexual orientation has no place in criticism. The association - in any way - of any of the above three categories with a reason for criticism would be grounds for dismissal in any Fortune 500 company today. I take that to mean that all such discussion is outside of the bounds of decent discourse.

A brief rundown of my concerns. The use of "negro" in association with criticism is racist. Calling women golfers "lesbians" is both sexist and homophobic. And saying that women's place is in the kitchen is absolutely sexist. If anyone needs an explanation, they've either spent their entire lives in some backwater or they're being willfully ignorant.

All the above claims/associations are still on the front page. If saying that's a big deal makes me a whiner, so be it. It also means I'm part of the modern world that accepts civil rights, feminism, and gay rights as a fact rather than a debate.

Nobody with a decent job would openly talk about the place of women or the race of a politician even if they harbor them in their hearts for fear of the consequences. This stuff isn't a debate, it was settled 50 years ago.

My only request is that the board be moderated in such a way that people are able to ignore the politics and the off color comments. Put them all here in Misfires, and please keep them off the main board. Once they become integrated into threads on the main board (i.e. the Fausti thread) they become impossible to avoid. If people want to be bigots and this board is going to tolerate it, fine. Just let the rest of us steer clear of it.

No one is questioning that there was ONE isolated incident of the use of the word lesbian here.
However it was YOU who blew this all out of proportion as is clearly demonstrated in your initial post "full of racist and misogynistic comments" is not only false it's out and out bull$hit.
There is generally an underlying motive for doing something like this but apparently you'd rather keep that to your self. so be it.

^ No way. In the "Another Misfires" thread on the main board, how many uses of "negro" are there in a negative way? There's way more going on than one use of the term "lesbian."

I think its just to hard for you to read this forum and not get upset or try and tell someone else how to run "his" forum.
You know what would work for you ?The "calebg" double gun forum and then you could run it just like you want.

I can never understand why anyone who goes online and does not like what he reads or how its run doesn't just hit that little "x" in the upper right and move on but instead chooses to try and change it for his preference.

Its dave's board,enjoy it or leave-your call but don't try and run it like its yours-its not.

Jay, I had to go back and re-read calebg's initial post again because I couldn't recall him saying he was unaware of the Misfires forum. He did not say what you are claiming he said. He also said that the place has been full of racism and misogyny recently, which is untrue. And it's obvious he was referring to more than just RWTF.

As to being mystified by the "hidden agenda" Jim spoke of... you need to get out more often. There are a number of so-called gun guys who act and talk like gun guys, but over time, they have revealed themselves to both support vehemently anti-gun politicians, and those politicians' attempts to infringe upon the rights of law abiding gunowners in response to the relatively rare acts of criminals and mentally ill killers. Sometimes, as in the recent mass killing in Kalifornia, they are not dissuaded by the fact that half of the victims were stabbed. King Brown, for example, has repeatedly stated that the Second Amendment was never threatened even though he is well aware that the Heller and McDonald decisions were both razor thin 5-4 victories. He also knows damn well that a majority of the Senate voted to bring Obama's Assault Weapon and Magazine bans and Universal Backround Checks to the floor of the Senate for a vote. It took a huge mobilization by gun owners to impress upon their Representatives that it is a lie that most gun owners want such new restrictions. But that doesn't stop King Brown from repeatedly attempting to LULL guys here into complacency and inaction. He has been a frequent critic of the NRA and told us that the proper response to the attempted assault on gun rights would be to concede some things and try to win them back later.
Unfortunately, King is not alone. These Libtards as we fondly call them, have defended Fast and Furious, the IRS targeting of Conservatives, the hamstringing of I.C.E., the Border Patrol, and the I.N.S., as our borders remain far from secure. They defend the refusal to save an ambassador and 4 Navy Seals in Benghazi while defending the swap of 5 very dangerous AlQueda terrorists for 1 deserter. Even seeing over 100% voter turnout in some Florida and Ohio precincts, and even after a Hamilton County, Ohio board of elections worker admitted to voting for Obama 6 times, they will insist that there was no vote fraud by Democrats in the last 2 elections.

So it seems to me that if you aren't seeing any hidden agendas, it's strictly because you don't want to. And none of this will change that, and I too am spinning my wheels with you.

I still maintain that you, calebg, are being disingenuous in saying that what you saw recently is a recent phenomena... especially in light of your own words about Meg Whitman. Good thing this isn't part of your job in a Fortune 500 company or those words might come back to bite you in the a$$. You would be wrong to assume that off topic threads will no longer appear on the front page. They happen all the time, but it is only certain ones that get certain sensitive people all in a tizzy. And it might be instructive for you to do a little research on the egregious racism which is routinely practiced by the Liberal race hustlers who use charges of racism to advance their own careers and agendas. Here's 20 of them just to get you started:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/ar...20by%20liberals

Who elected you arbiter of proper thought & speech ?

I think you might be confusing me with someone else. Apparently someone dug around and found my comment about eBay selling guy parts from years ago that reads:

"Being anti-gun and having political ambitions within the Republican party don't play well together, even in California. Looks like her political ambitions won out."

Are you insinuating that this is a sexist comment? In no way am I using her gender as an explicit or implicit critique; in fact, I make no reference to her gender. All I'm saying is that she's an instrumental politician, which isn't saying much. I have no problem whatsoever standing by this statement, and none of this would endanger my employment at any non-partisan organization in the country.

I am being 100% genuine in saying that I have never seen this sort of political vitriol on the main board before the past few weeks. I now realize it's always been here, but it's been fenced off in Misfires. I wish things had stayed that way.

No calebg, it has not always been fenced off in Misfires. Not even close. You can maintain that you are 100% genuine about never seeing them until recently, but you would had to have either very rarely visited this website, or just recently been cured of blindness. It was actually quite common before Dave Weber initiated the dedicated Second Amendment Informational Thread last year.

Maybe you should also write to Fox News and MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Al Sharpton, The New York Times, The Washington Post, etc. with your concerns about political vitriol, and attempt to censor the whole world to suit your sensitive nature.

Now grow a set, because I'm going to say something that may be really upsetting to you. There are Liberal Democrat politicians hell-bent on taking away our guns. Ignoring the threat will only make it easier for them, and they don't like our doubles any more that they like so-called assault rifles and handguns. Everywhere there are infringements upon our Second Amendment rights, there are Liberal Democrat politicians. And there are Liberal Democrats who support them, vote for them, and provide cover for their attacks on our Civil Rights. That's not very nice either, so either get used to hearing about it, or go away.

I have no idea where this is coming from. Nothing I've written has a thing to do with the Second Amendment or gun control. You're bringing up something that absolutely nobody else in this thread is talking about.

I started this thread because I don't think it's okay to use race, gender, or sexual orientation as an implicit or explicit critique of people.

Criticize politicians for their policies on the basis of their policies all you want. I'm generally uninterested in those conversations, but you're welcome to have them.

How is it that a suggestion for some better manners was turned into a left-wing vs. right-wing argument; all before page 2 of this thread? Fascinating.

Because it is.

Keith?

I didn't say it was in Caleb's initial post. It's here in his response to this first one from you, where you have him wearing panties and accuse him of being dishonest.



And here again a little later.


Do you really think it unexpected that an occasional visitor here, browsing for topics of particular interest, could have missed seeing threads that included comments pertaining to race or expressing sexist attitudes??

Hyperbolic overreaction seems to be the rule in these threads. Keith, you were a standup guy a while back in apologizing for something you said of me in a case of mistaken identity. Nothing egregious here, but where do I say I'm not "seeing any hidden agendas"?? I don't think there's much you can teach me about hidden agendas in anti-gun politics. They're prevalent and you'll find no example of my denying them. I thought it clear that my "mystery" and "mystified" remarks pertain only to the following about misogyny, where Jim suggested a "hidden agenda" in comments rejecting misogynistic statements he seemed to think were directed by some group of posters toward him and some other group ("now we're all misogynists!"), rather than merely at RWTF.


In threads like this it goes 'round and 'round, personal political agendas lead to discovery of opposing "hidden agendas" not only where they is, but where they ain't. When the latter, we damage our credibility in our efforts to protect our gun rights.

Jay

Caleb, your intent was clear to some here, but some others take criticism unrelated to gun rights as subversion of their zealous efforts to defend them. You may have thought I exaggerated, but this is what I meant in my first post about making yourself a target.

For most members looking at a thread like this, I think it's much as Amarillo Mike suggests -- gawking at a nasty wreck.

Jay

Too bad people like you don't live by your words and keep your promises.

Calebg you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You speak like a very confused liberal...?....You say one thing then contradict what you just posted. Most of what you say makes little sense with almost no cohesion.

On your initial post you said:

Just what do you think 2A political threads and rants are about anyway...?

A couple of posts above here you start out on Keith like he's talking about topics that have not been mentioned on this thread, when indeed you posted the above on your initial post......duh.....

Then Keith points out to you that the main page above has a dedicated SECOND AMENDMENT THREAD AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE, that has been there since the owner of this board posted it there last year because he is VERY PRO GUN, PRO SECOND AMENDMENT, as are 98% of the members that visit this website.

Evidently you are not one of the 98% pro gun Second Amendment Patriots and are only concerned with how members here structure their English in regards to minorities, women's rights and homosexuals.....? Is that correct, you have no interest in anti-gun politicians or what anti-gun policies they promote......?

Sorry to hear you don't care how the Democrat Libtard Politicians try to destroy our Second Amendment to the Constitution.

The vast majority of political vitriol on this board, no matter where it appears, originates with the fact that certain politicians pose a threat to our gun rights. In case you hadn't noticed, this is a firearms related website, and without the Second Amendment, none of this would even be here. Those same Liberal politicians also seem to share the same views on illegal immigration amnesty, taxation, wealth redistribution, etc.

You bring up "Political Vitriol" and now pretend that your sole subject is misogyny, racism, or gender orientation. I think you are again being dishonest. No, this time, I'm sure of it, because your words I quoted above don't even mention misogyny, racism, or gender orientation. What are you trying to pull?

Jay... do you still want to admonish me for thinking that calebg is being untruthful with us? I must say that I'm now really confused by your interpretation of Jim's statement about "hidden agendas". Glad to hear that you understand how prevalent they are in politics. And calebg certainly did seem to wish to paint a lot of us with the same broad brush, though the comments he found offensive were posted by one person. So I fully understand why Jim was questioning his true motives. At least that's what I think Jim was saying. Maybe Jim can correct me if I'm wrong.

You however don't seem to see that calebg has made himself a target for derision by denying what he just said. Then he tells us he doesn't know where my political comments are coming from... minutes after he talks about the political vitriol he claims to have never once seen in 6 years of visits to this site. As I said, yes I'll concede he may have missed them... if he was blind. And if I was stupid.

And I can't help noticing Jay, that you don't even acknowledge this bullshit from LGF:



When did the terms Kenyan or Negro become racist? Why does this idiot LGF automatically assume that anyone who uses those terms really wants to use the derogatory N-word that is apparently reserved for misogynist black Rappers? And why aren't the people here who have used those terms also attacking Justice Clarence Thomas or Condoleeza Rice? And why do these self righteous folks like calebg refuse to acknowledge the racism that comes from the mouths of their politicians and race hustler heroes?

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/ar...20by%20liberals

Thanks for the reminder. I'm out.

Too bad. You and King Brown would have gotten along great. He could have taught you how to claim I put words in your mouth after I quoted you verbatim as above! Then you could have pretended to ignore me. Talk about a match made in heaven.

Jay, I'm standing by the panties comment. Looks like I was right about that.

Don't let the screen door hit you in the a$$.

Geez Keith, I am just about run out of gas with spinning of wheels. You could not help noticing that I didn't acknowledge that ugly post? Almost seems you're suggesting some kind of hidden agenda in what you mistake as my selective criticism of incivility??

Look again. I immediately acknowledged, and Canvasback then responded -- so my reaction appears more than once in the thread. Again, an example of finding the agenda you're looking for, never mind what's really there. Though annoyed that I'm defending myself against nonsensical criticism, I'll make it easy for you and provide the posts.





Seems to me Caleb's generic mention of politics doesn't make his point political -- he objected to race and gender as offensive and irrelevant to political criticism. He didn't express any political view. One can argue in circles about differing views of what is and isn't racist, but if you insist on seeing dishonesty, I think you're fooling yourself.

My tank is empty, my tires are bald. I'm gonna walk back to the main forum.

Jay

Jay,

I did somehow miss your acknowledgement of canvasback's response to LGF's inane post. Sorry. But I really think you ought to re-read what calebg had to say about "Political Vitriol" moments before he claimed to have only brought up the subjects of racism, misogyny, and gender orientation. I never said he was expressing any political view. He was claiming to be offended by political vitriol that he claimed to have seen in the last few weeks.

It appears you are seeing things which are not there, and fooling yourself in your zeal to make your point. I missed your comment about LGF in my zeal to make a point. Maybe if you had expended one tenth as much time admonishing him as you did me, it would have been more noticeable. But I don't wish to make excuses. I'm pretty sure you'll check back to see if I too ran out of gas.

Will you at least agree that I was right about the panties???
You know I was.

Keith, I'm not kidding about being out of gas, tired of repeatedly going back over these posts to parse meaning and make points.

Finally though, we disagree. From the outset, Caleb brought up race in the context of political talk; I don't read what he said later as dishonest at all. His point was behavioral, not political, and I think that was his meaning.

I know Caleb a little from other shotgunning boards where he's a more frequent poster. We've exchanged some pms about similar projects we did with 16 ga. M-31Ls. He's a good man Keith, and you won't cajole me into agreement on underclothing.

Jay

Wrong again Jay. Calebg brought up his observation that this board has become full of racism and misogyny, as well as political rants... not race in the context of political talk as you assert. There's a difference there Jay. You won't have to parse meaning if you look at what calebg actually said. You don't have to think about his meaning. He comes right out and tells us. You can keep on looking for things that aren't there all you want in an effort to prove me wrong. I'm not even close to running out of gas.

It simply strains all credulity to think that anyone who joined this forum in 2008, made 60 posts, and visited from time to time, never once until the last few weeks noticed a thread or post with political rancor. Then he tells us that there is a post or thread where someone asserts that "Obamas race is relevant to his political judgements and our assessment of them." Jim asks him to show us this racism, and all he's got is that someone wrote the word "negro". Maybe the owner of the Los Angeles Times should be forced to leave the business and sell the paper because they coined the horribly racist term "Magic Negro". Give me a break. I don't need to repeat everything that Doug (PA24) said in his excellent post above on this page. Calebg admonishes me for intentionally injecting a bit of gun rights politics, and then acts as if he has no clue where that comes from after he himself whined about the "Political Rants" in his initial post. I gave him one just to do it. As Doug noted, this is a website owned by, and 98% populated by pro-Second Amendment guys. But we have a minority that are mostly concerned with supressing and censoring discussions about threats to our gun rights, and they'll conjure up any kind of feigned insult or injury in order to accomplish that goal. If you think that's honest, so be it. I don't.

Hopefully your friend calebg will be happier at those other shotgun boards he frequents. If there's really such a place where gun guys never say a negative word about someone like Obama who would take away all their guns, and where being overly sensitive to PC bullshit rules the day, most of us wouldn't want any part of it. But we've got a guy from Nova Scotia that we'll trade for anyone there who might value things like the Second Amendment more than they worry about curtsies and faux civility. He's got a real (almost) Nobel Prize in pulpwood clearcutting.

Keith is spot on with his assessment of my comments about "hidden agenda". Well since I'm Not the type to hide things I'll make "hidden agenda" perfectly clear.
The are individuals who come on this forum maintaining they're double gun enthusiasts. However I believe They're real goal is to stifle any threads that identify and criticise our common enemy who are ultra Liberal Democrats on the extreme left fringe we refer to as Libtards. Keith is also right that these same Libtard politicians seem to favor amnesty, unbridled spending, make excuses for scandals like Becghazi, Fast & furious, The IRS, the VA,the criminal actions of the Justice Department and the obvious ineptness of the occupant of the White House.
Their usual argument is "This is a gun board and political discussion belongs elsewhere yadda yadda yadda". If that approach is unsuccessful as it has generally been here they try to disrupt the board and create contention in any way such as raising non-issues such as the board is racist or misogynist. In other words if the can't get their way with their ultra liberal agenda they would rather try to destroy the board rather then let it continue.
That's what I believe has been attemped here as of late. Fortunately there's enough of us watching what's going on and a site owner who I believe to be on to this ruse. If that's what any of you reading this have been attempting to do I'd suggest you give it up because it ain't gonna fly here.
Jim

Not persuasive Keith. Caleb's words themselves can fairly be understood as contentious without dishonesty. When flimsy attributions of sinister motive color interpretation beyond simple meaning, the discussion moves beyond logic.

Jay

I think caleb hung in there with 'discussion' even when it became clear that from some points of view, there is a policy criticism. The dishonest part to me, is being contentious, always right on the issue, if you will and then admitting his intolerance for policy discussion. 'This stuff isn't a debate, it was settled 50 years ago.'

I guess we'll never know without subjecting calebg to waterboarding and polygraphs Jay. But I think I/we laid out a pretty strong circumstantial evidence case. In another thread, where the poster wasn't a friend of yours, I think you might feel differently. Personal bias can be blinding for any of us... myself included. However, most here seem to also think calebg had ulterior motives and also had no right to inflict his standards on the owner of this board or the rest of us who are content with it just as it is. It's particularly vexing when a relative newbie moves in and tries to change the status quo. Reminds me of those city folk who move into the country and immediately start trying to ban the release of cow pies. They smelled the aroma when they bought the property, but dove in anyway. I still do not believe that someone who has been registered on this site for 6 years never once encountered a contentious political rant until the last few weeks. That Jay, is something which defies logic.

Some of the so-called incivility and rudeness that ruffles the feathers of certain hypersensitive grown men here pales in comparison to what they would encounter at work, at hunting camp, or even on a junior high school bus. We see right through it.

I note with some satisfaction that I was correct about what Jim was thinking when he made his statement about a hidden agenda and the notion that... "so now we're all misogynists." Of course, I had the advantage of being much more familiar with Jim's thinking, and the knowledge that this thread isn't the first time we've been accused of racism, misogyny, bigotry, and every other sin under the sun in an attempt to quell the discussion about the failings of the Liberal Democrat politicians who we see coming after our guns and fundamentally transforming our country into something the Founding Fathers would not even recognize. This here is just a microcosm of the exact same tactics which are routinely used on a National scale by racist, misogynist, bigots in the DNC and Democrat Party. As many times as I have posted links and actual quotes of racist, bigoted statements made by folks in positions of power and influence in the Left... not once has any of our resident Leftists acknowledged it. Never! They all cut and run, or ignore, or change the subject. I may not have the X-ray vision to know exactly what's in a man's heart, but I know dishonesty and hypocrisy when I see it.

"and also had no right to inflict his standards on the owner of this board or the rest of us who are content with it just as it is. It's particularly vexing when a relative newbie moves in and tries to change the status quo. Reminds me of those city folk who move into the country and immediately start trying to ban the release of cow pies. They smelled the aroma when they bought the property, but dove in anyway"


And its always the liberals who want to make everyone else be like they decide they should be,the party of NO tolerance.

I'd like to propose that a new section be set up on the forum that,for lack of a better title, I'll call "The Bullshit Post Of The Day".
We will all get to nominate our choice then vote since many believe this is a Democracy. However the actual choice will be made by the site owner because this is in fact a Republic and he constitutes the Electoral College.

I want to make it perfectly clear that members posts such as King Brown's are ineligible since they have already been elevated or degraded(your choice) to The Bullshit Hall Of Fame.
The induction ceremony for those deemed outstanding bullshitters will be conducted naturally by the Bullshitter in Chief in the Oval Office with Mrs. Rice serving as witness if someone can get him off the golf course long enough to do anything.
Jim

You can nominate this one for your new forum Jim.

My company has a few hundred employees. A mixture of men and women.

To use the vernacular here, We cull employees regularly that speak, and act, as many of the prominent posters within this thread.

So, if you are called in to your personnel offices, and are escorted from the premises, remember you always have a boss, and they apply the rules of the arena.

It's not even relevant if you like it or not.
It's Federal law, and insurance only covers discrimination to a certain degree. No matter how indispensable you think you are. It's far cheaper and easier to take you to the gate.

You want your job? Keep your mouth shut. Leave your co-workers alone. Do what we pay you to do. Leave your politics at the gate.
Oh, and our customers have even more say over if you stay or not. Those female or minority engineers can pull a 30 million dollar contract because of a stupid remark. You are an easy sacrifice if you open your yap. Oh, and a stupid remark is any remark not directly related to the work made to or around, anyone.

As a side point,

Do the ranter's think an "all rant all the time" forum adds or subtracts from the site? Does it carry it forward in it's mission? Or does it hold it back?

I ask that because Dave refers to himself as a doubles evangelist. That pre-supposes he wishes to advance a personal affectation for double guns, and shows a desire to help others find the same feelings for themselves. Like a religion might do.

This was the preeminent site for vintage doubles information and processes, but those contributions seem much further apart anymore. Almost rare actually.

The great question for me is "Did I do something that would make a doubles hobbyist choose to not post here?" Not a question I can answer.

But I do know the site cannot survive without the content.

Drive it away, and there'll be 10 guys left sitting in a circle wondering what happened.

Just my unwanted 2 cents.

lets see now, we got sxs, keith, craig and dave k all here in the circle...wonder why pa and mikee aint here...maybe nurse ratchet is givin erm their weekly fire hose shower?

hey guys! wadda ya say we go fishin next Saturday?

an anybody seen chief lately?

I put in my time in the corporate world and watched all the political correctness stuff unfold and kept my mouth shut. I watched the abuses and realized there was one group that could be abused and discriminated against to any extreme imaginable and no one would raise or listen to an objection and that group of course was middle aged White males. I witnessed this 1st hand and as a management employee myself knew damn well what was going on.
Many were in management and professional positions and were driven out on any pretext so their jobs could be filled be lower paying and,in general, far less qualified individuals.
I finally said to Hell with it and opened and ran my own business until I retired.
I don't now and never have dumped on minorities or females and would be one of the first to speak up if I was exposed to this behavior.
On the other hand; I don't cowtow to ANYONE or any group that I think is damaging our Country. From the occupant of the White House and his flunkies to most of Congress to half of the Supreme Court and to anti-American groups such as the ACLU, MAIG etc.
I'm retired so what exactly is anyone going to do. Force me to un-retire? Cut off my retirement funds?
I'll tell you one thing this oppressive administration is in a position to do and that's cut off my medical care and I suspect that's a option this ultra left wing administration has under consideration as an "attitude adjustment" tool.
And I firmly resent your referring to us as "ranters" as we're just reporting and commenting upon what's going on in the Country today, primarily in the area of the 2nd Amendment, in one of the few truly free media resources that's still available.
If you or anyone else doesn't want to read about it then stay out of Misfires and go get your "news" from Brian Williams.

For those who may have lost sight of the original post, here it is above.

The OP's only crime may have been over-generalizing when he use the words "full of" to describe the extend of the issue. Myself, I would have used the words "happens here more often than on other gun boards". Perhaps it is the same member(s) posting the racist and misogynistic comments (I don't know, I've never formally kept track or logged the key words for retro-active search purposes to satisfy the willfully blind deniers) but it is certainly jaw dropping and it happens here more than it should. This thread was about nothing more. Nothing.

Yes:
We agree this thread is about nothing. ONE member here used the word "lesbian" inappropriately ONCE and some of you, for whatever reason, tried to blow this all out of proportion. But please tell us exactly what you mean "but it is certainly jaw dropping and it happens here more than it should". Perhaps you'd care to explain what you mean by the above comment.
I'll tell you what I see is another poster with a low post count who has set himself up as an authority on what's posted here.
We await your response.

This is excellent advice. I believe it's fair to point out though, that your company probably has an employee handbook or a set of rules so to speak. Similarly, entering a place called misfires and reading the users agreement might make one think they're not at work with a job description to follow or else.

I also suspect it take two to tangle, or rather two different sides at the minimum to turn up the temp. What kind of forum would it be if ed good, owd and nca held hands in an even smaller circle and wondered why it's not as much fun being right all the time. Sure it's not the same as real life, but neither are double guns for most folks. There's a signature line floating around here that's interesting, relax we're all experts.

I had a different take. He probably didn't commit a crime, but he did say his point was absolute and non negotiable. When I think about it though, it would then be difficult to over-generalize from a position truth.

No horse in this fight but, did RWTF say anything all that provocative?

An old geezer prefers feminine women and values male only spaces. This is indecent?

It’s irrefutable that the LPGA is strongly associated with lesbians. You can’t think of one without thinking of the other...not if you’ve been to Palm Springs during the Dinah Shore tournament.

The Fausti sisters are good looking. We’re not supposed to notice? RWTF alluded to the obvious: Women are judged more by their looks than their business acumen. Get over it.

My first inclination was that some of you need to grow thicker skins. However, I suspect that’s not the issue. Being aggrieved on the behalf of others really stinks of arrogance. You need to display your sublime decency on an internet forum?

The Lesbians don’t give a [censored].

I direct this at those who would restrict or take away our second amendment rights in any way shape or form...and no matter how minor.

A "Shine on, shine on Harvest Moon" scenario-- no sound effects so the "I fart in your general direction" tagline may not apply.

Ah yes, the "low post count" marker. Irrefutable evidence of a disingenuous troll. Nothing gets past you.

And aside from taking a cheap shot at me YOUR Point is??

Made. Thank you for making it.

I'm embarrassed by the number of my posts. What a time-waster! I like reading such a wide range of opinions it become entertainment: what will they say next?

I draw the line on meanness, foul language and maliciousness and those who ask for explanations of comments never made.

High posts are indicative of garrulousness, a propensity for debate, and wasting time that could used for benefits in places where they are needed.

Low-posters should be encouraged. Seniority has no premium here. Ideas do. We know what high-posters have for breakfast, what papers they read.

Geez Jim, I'm not seeing it. You'd think that Misfires has been a hotbed of racism and misogyny for this Clueless Canadian to see the need to dredge up an essentially dormant and pointless thread that died over a week ago. Maybe he has a slow reaction time or it just took that long to think of a clever response.

I guess Libtard Trolls are the newest minority that is supposed to get special treatment???

Not here ninepointer. Not here.

I can handle the cheap shots Keith. This is typical of those types who can never refute what you posted so have to resort to libel. I'm surprised I and others haven't been labeled as racist in this thread which is a typical approach used by the clueless.

And King: You can easily reduce your "embarrassment" by eliminating meaningless posts like the one above.

Jim

Very well could be. For me, I can definitely see your point, but the actual time involved and how it can be steered towards small little tidbits of down time don't really force giving up what's needed.

See if you can encourage ninepointer. Without revealing what you had for breakfast, you still may not have found interesting entertainment. Maybe a two thirds if you will, mean and malicious without the foul language.

Jim, it's addictive. It's entertaining. It's therapeutic with me. What better place on earth to see how and where extreme conservatism has become an euphemism for selfishness. Imagine: a Tea Party advocate as arbiter of what is meaningful. Or any member for that matter. Misfires separates us from members without axes to grind.

nine pointer doesn't need encouragement from me, craig. His riposte to Jim was straight out of Cyrano de Bergerac:

"Where shall I skewer my peacock again?"

""And as I end the refrain, thrust home."

A flick of the wrist, it was done.

As usual King; you are somewhere off course when it comes to reality. The word you should have used here was exculpate. Go back to being "entertained" as it suits you well.
If you were to grind an axe I expect you'd start at the wrong end of head.
Jim

You're not using one of those, Jim? Mine double-bit always---two edges.

I admire his reasoning and perseverance in trying to change peoples minds through education. As they say one can not teach old dogs new tricks....or Fido ain't going to get the stick even if he wants to because he is too crippled to move.

Sincere question, do facts work for you? It's ok, I didn't think so. I do like your gas price strategy though, cloud the issue with with some fluff unrelated to price. Sell it in smaller quantities so folks think it's 'cheaper', and necessarily skyrocket everyone's energy costs.

Some Fido's can still move around a bit. You were probably thinking of Fido's that were just supposed to roll over.

Jag is one of the biggest idiots on here,I put that clown on ignore long ago,he has never once made a comment that makes ANY sense.Perhaps to many mushrooms when he was younger.

If you want to learn about oil prices you need to look at supply demand and whats known as the logistic decline plot.







Conventional oil production continues its long decline from Hubbert’s peak in 1970. The contribution from tight oil, welcome as it has been, will decline as rapidly as it rose. What has stopped total world oil production from falling in the last few years has been U.S. tight oil. The downslope of U.S. tight oil will be the equivalent of taking Iraq’s production out of the market, which may happen as well.

We will be paying more for oil as a consequence – that is a given. The prices of things that can substitute for oil will also rise.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/06/reversal_of_fortune.html

Who first said "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"?

Waiting on pins-n-needles to be baffled sum mor.

Ed is yet another senile resident on here who belongs in someones basement eating cat food like someone's crazy uncle.This kind of stuff is way above his 2nd grade "edumacation" level and inbreed family tree.He came for the land of "row faster I hear banjo music" and it shows !

Ya think he will ever get enough abuse to make himself feel better about ripping people off ?All the meds and shrinks in the world won't bring him any solace,he needs to come on here-with his stuck caps key, and get his daily whippings.
He is one sick puppy

uh dave, much of what you post here is an effort to rip people off...inter lecturely speaking, that is...an guess what? you aint foolin nobody...

guess what Ed,there are more people here who will piss on your grave ( and I will be more then happy to be the first) then mine-go find a pine cone to hide the semi closed torched shotgun-to make the lever look better then it is you crook .
Tell use Ed 1,when did you realize your were a inbred that was dropped on your head ?
Here is one of Ed Goods pics when he was in his price-before he discovered his mother met his father at a family reunion.

gee, dave pears like yo needle is stuck?

Racism, tolerance, bigotry, a.k.a. libtard moniker:

Which side of the fence? If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a Republican doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one. If a Democrat doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a Republican is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat. If a
Democrat is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Republican is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a Democrat is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a Republican is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation. If a Democrat is down-and-out he wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a Republican doesn't like a talk show host, he switches
channels. A Democrat demands that those they don't like be shut down permanently.

If a Republican is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church. A Democrat non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.

If a Republican decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it. If a Democrat decides he needs health care, he demands that the rest of us pay for it.

This explains how libtards think.......

If you read the posts on this thread you will see that the libtard whiners are from: Boston a.k.a. South Maine (same thing), Berkley , Minnesoooota, Ontario Canada, Nova Scotia and Jagermeister and Calebg unknown, but most likely one of the Northeastern U.S. liberal bastions, most of which are broke..........if you know your political geography this pretty much explains all you need to know, monkey see monkey do for generations....

The above IMO: ought to be read aloud into the Congressional Record before and at the end of each session of Congress. It wouldn't hurt to put up as a permanent wall display in their chambers either.
BTW: The information Dave posts here that's economically related is factual and verifiable and therefore The REASON some attack him for it is since they're Libtards they have nothing in the line of facts to refute it. So they resort to putting down the person reporting the real news. I fully understand this since I've been repeatedly attacked for the same reasons.
Frankly I don't however understand how someones mind get this twisted but apparently it happens.
Jim

sxs: now this is rich...first, you complain that you have been attacked here...and then then you defend your fellow attack dog dave k...just astounding!

Go re-read my last sentence. It pretty much sums up the overall opinion of you on this forum.

sxs: so, you speak for all here do you? i think not. if so, so what? here, I answer only to the god dave...

Yep Jim, and he split his tongue on an errant backstroke. Now you know why he speaks with forked tongue.