xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Very nice! Do you hunt with it?

Those are impressive!

Bolt rifles are starting to wear on me. In a good way. I like those.

I have a friend that is looking for a hunting rifle like them. He is slowly turning down the path of vintage guns. He is very young yet so he has a ways to go, but I understand his attraction to these rifles, though I've always wonder what is the function of a full length stock. On these, they certainly look great. Do they handle noticeably different than a more conventionally stocked bolt rifle?

Brent,

I think Stutzen rifles first gained popularity for Alpine Hunting in the Tyrol and elsewhere.

Going back to muzzle-loading days I believe that they were often made with a steel shod butt so that with that and the full stock to the muzzle they could be used as a climbing aid.

They are supposed to have issues with grouping and holding their zeros, but fortunately my 9.5 Mannlicher-Schoenauer doesn’t seem to know that.

I've never heard the climbing aid theory. I like it! Though I have some doubts about it too

I figure the full length wood is probably a hold over from muzzleloaders and thus, a fashion statement. But the utilitarian aspect of a climbing staff is novel to me.

A friend is looking for a left hand rifle preferably in 6.5 mm. That should be rare enough to keep him looking until his new born is out of college, and he will have the spare change.

The lines of your guns are certainly attractive. I don't say that often about bolt rifles.

Good luck with the hunting.


Edit- seems we lost the original photos and post. Parabola, perhaps you could post a pic or two of your 9.5 MS?

Full length stocks are usually found on short rifles, not much use as a "bergstock".
Mike

Brent, sorry about the poor photo quality. I will try to do a better one when we get a sunny day.

It is a 9.5 Model 1910 retailed by Watson Brothers in 1914. 2 owners since new.

The peep sight is a Parker-Hale Sportarget. After I had it fitted by Bailons I removed and kept the original back sight (100 standard and 300 folding leaf).

I had found a spare, removed the standard from that to clear the sight line and fitted that so it still has a folding leaf.

For stalking I have always used the P-H peep sight.

Not classics but I've always had a soft spot for full stocked short rifles. Back in the 1960s I put one together in 6.5x55 on a 94 Swedish with all the usuals of the time like a Timney trigger, Buhler safety and a side mounted scope. It was one that didn't know about any accuracy problems with full stocks and accounted for mule deer and pronghorn antelope. It got traded off at some point but I'm sure it is still out there getting game. While I still had it, in the early 80s my local shop got in a big shipment of new Steyr Mannlichers with full stocks for the exorbitant price of $150. I picked out a nice one in 7x57 but my friend the manager said that since I had the 6.5x55 why not get something not so close like a 22-250. Made sense so I got one (which also had no problems with accuracy). Then, someone dropped another 22-250 off the rack and broke the stock at the wrist. Did I want the barreled action for $100? Sure, I was a sucker for the action by then and I had a friend who was a good stockmaker and I had a nice long blank I'd picked up at a show for $10. It was old and dusty and had German railroad shipping labels on it. I was also a sucker for European walnut by then. OK, I didn't really need two 22-250s so what could I do? I sent the unfired barreled action off to Snapp's to rebore to 250 Savage, of course. Rotary magazines for the 250? Not a problem, 22-250 ones eat them like candy. So now I had a nice light deer rifle full stocked in European walnut with a Niedner butt plate and a bullet trap in the stock (all a gift from my friend). Things were easy to come by back then. It is a pleasure to carry in the field with my favorite hunting scope, a Redfield Widefield 1 3/4x5 (last one I picked up for $50), and the deer never know what hits them. Oh, and then there is a full stocked small ring Mauser in 30-06 lightly engraved with spoon bolt handle and double sets that may be the most accurate rifle I have and for $145 how in the world could I resist? Yeah, full stocked rifles have an accuracy problem - they are too accurate!

I really love full length stocks, but only have one myself. Mine is a Husqvarna Type 33A that I really love. A very long full octagon barrel in 9.5x47R which is close to a .38-55 and I use those cases to make my ammo.

Vall,
You said the Husqvarna Type 33A is chambered for 9.5x47R, don't you mean it is chambered for 9.3x57R instead? The original length 38-55 case works fine for 9.3x57R, but it takes 11.15x60R Mauser, 45-70, or 40-65 cases to make 9.5x47R.
Mike

Mike, Vall's rifle is somewhat unique. He will be along to explain it. My full-stocked 33A is in 9.3x57R.

Mike, my Type 33A has a .376" groove diameter, and the chamber uses .38-55 cases slightly shortened. I was told this makes it a 9.5 bore since a 9.3" would be smaller. The length is 47mm or 1.8" which also aligns with the 47R.
So as far as I can tell it's a 9.5x47R, but I have no idea what a 9.5x47R is that would take a .40-65 or .45-70 case and still be .375" and 1.8"? I've looked at Cartridges of the World before and seen the stubby little cartridge they show as 9.5x47R, but it's certainly not like mine. But mine isn't like the 9.3x47R either.

Vall,
I certainly can't argue with you about your own rifle, I have never even seen it, much less made a chamber cast. I noted a couple of these rifles on Simpson Ltd., but someone beat me to them, maybe you were one of them. The fact that you can use 38-55 cases means the cartridge is based on the British 360 case rather than the German Mauser Base case. Dixon (European Sporting Cartridges) lists a 9.5x47R with the Mauser Base cases, but not one under those based on the 360 based cases. There is, however, a 9.3x45R and also a 9.3x48R listed under 360 based cases, but only in the German form (German form chambers will not accept English form cases without resizing, even if the same nominal length). Indeed, 9.3 mm is smaller than 9.5mm, but old rifles were often found to use bullets with a smaller diameter than the groove diameter, depending on the black powder to obturate it to fit. The grooves were deeper, to (hopefully) provide room for black powder residue. Modern practice is to use a bullet the same diameter as the groove diameter. Also, old rifles often had chambers a little longer than the case length (maybe to provide room for residue?), and some had a neck and lead the same diameter, making the nominal case length hard to determine. I think your rifle could be chambered for 9.3x45R, 9.3x48R, or 9.3x57R, based on the variations discussed above, especially case form. Since I don't have a Husqvarna and HalfaDouble does, I suggest you PM him to solve the question. If you haven't made a chamber cast, it will be necessary to do so.
Mike

Yes, Vall's seems to be pretty unique. Mine is a pure 9.3x57R (360) with a .367 groove diameter. Vall and I had discussed his back when he started to shoot it. Anyway, what he worked out works well in his. Mine is also full stocked like his although I also had a half stock model which took the same ammo (since traded) and I also have a Husqvarna Cape in 16 ga x 9.3x57R (360) which takes the same ammo. The old caliber list for the Husqvarnas does list a 9.5 of some form to add to the confusion. My brass is made from 9.3x72R shortened and I use my 9.3x72 dies to resize it.

My particular Type 33A has caused a lot of head scratching for me, and others familiar with these guns too! So it's still a bit of a mystery! I even wondered if someone at Husqvarna put a standard 9.5 barrel on it, but reamed the chamber for a 9.3 instead?
I'm actually tickled to death that it is what it is as it shoots exceptionally well, and is so cheap, simple, and easy to make ammo for. But seems it will always be a mystery as to how it got the chamber it has.

HalfaDouble,
The next time you want to move a 9.3x57R, PM me, I have been "in the market" for one, for a while.

Vall,
Since you will keep using 1.8" cases, you might look at the new 360 Buckhammer cases. The Buckhammer is based on the 30-30 case with a .358" bullet and shortened to 1.8" to meet the case length requirements of the states that now allow straight case cartridges for hunting deer. You may only need to fireform and not trim them.
Mike

Thanks Mike!
With a lot of excess brass in things like .32 Win. Spl. that I don't own a gun for, plus a huge supply of .38-55 brass that I have a half dozen guns chambered in; my supply of brass is great. And since the .32 Win. Sol. is already too short to open up for my .38-55's and .32-40 rifles, it's easy to expand to .38-55 and then they're close enough that they don't need fire forming prior to loading. Just run them into my Lyman M die to expand, and then into my .38-55 die, and slightly trim to length.
The .360 Buckhammer brass is far too new to be an option as it's not been around long enough to find cheap brass. Plenty of cheap .32 Win. Spl. brass if I needed more, but I've probably got plenty to last anyone a lifetime.

Vall,
My situation is the opposite of yours, I form 8x57R/360, 8x58R S&S, and 6.5x58R S&S from original length (2.125-2.130") 38-55 cases (a little short but work if I seat the bullets "out") and I'm down to about 20 of them. Current 38-55 cases are the same length as 30-30 and I count them by the gallon instead of "each" and I don't own a 30-30 rifle.
Mike

I have a lot of brass I've kept from various rifles I don't own anymore, and no plans to own again. Most are based on the same rim as the .38-55 base rim, and most are shorter cases like .30-30, .32 Win. Spl., etc.
All my .38-55 cases and .32-40 cases are full length, so none of the modern short 2" stuff here. All but one of my single shots in .38-55 are Marlin Ballard rifles, so I wont use any modern brass in them.