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Posted By: Shotgunjones A fact about AA 5744 - 07/30/21 02:17 PM
Another "don't know where to put this" type of comment. Figured I'd put it here since many load for the old BP cartridges. Perhaps this will get some search engine hits and help spread the word.

Accurate/Hodgdon has this to say about 5744:

Accurate 5744 is an extremely fast burning, double-base, extruded powder. This unique powder can be used in a wide range of rifle calibers and magnum handguns. 5744 is characterized by excellent ignition and consistency over a very wide performance range. Low bulky density and superior ignition characteristics make 5744 an excellent choice for reduced loads in many rifle calibers and in large capacity black powder cartridges such as the 45-70 through 45-120 and 50-90 through 50-120. Made in Canada.

I've only recently started using 5744, but one thing that is clear and obvious is that the claim of 'low bulk density' is simply incorrect.

I've verified that the listed 'volumetric density' on the Lee chart is correct.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/docs/products/LE~90058.pdf

In fact, AA 5744 is DENSER than either IMR 3031 or IMR 4198, both powders commonly used to load the 45-70 as is AA 5744.

Careless hand loaders have come to grief double charging these cases. If you think 'low bulk density' as claimed by Accurate/Hodgdon will help you in any way to avoid an accident with AA 5744 you are mistaken. In fact, the very low charge weight and high charge efficiency is actually working against you and making a double charge even more possible if you aren't PAYING ATTENTION.

Be careful, as always, with any powder that could possibly double charge a case. This is of course not unique to BP rifle calibers, it's a long standing issue with pistol calibers.

And I should say here to cover all the bases that AA 5744 is NOT a 'volume for volume' black powder substitute as one fellow found out when he listened to some genius who told him it was. A full case destroyed a rifle.
Posted By: LRF Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 07/30/21 09:49 PM
I won't use it. Did you read this thread? 5744
Posted By: Vall Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 07/30/21 10:12 PM
I wont use 5744, as there have been enough documented cases of old guns blowing up while using 5744 to make me afraid of it. Not a fan of double base powders in general, and lots of better choices for loading mild loads in my old single shot rifles.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 07/30/21 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by LRF
I won't use it. Did you read this thread? 5744

I did see that thread but I have no access to the subsequent forensic report.

My personal use is for a Shiloh, and I'm not the least bit concerned about the powder in this application if loaded correctly.

The point is that 'low density' is not a feature of this product in spite of what the manufacturer claims.
Posted By: LRF Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 07/31/21 01:01 AM
I suppose the old adage "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" is appropriate here.
Posted By: Der Ami Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 07/31/21 06:24 PM
I use it a good bit in old cartridges. Just be careful ( as with any powder) and remember what you can lose trying to get an extra 100 fps you don't need.
Mike
Posted By: DanLH Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/03/21 03:36 AM
I'm a long time member and competitor in cast bullet matches and 5744 has been a very popular powder, especially in the military rifle matches and many records have been set using it. The original surplus 5744 was really good and it was cheap when it came out. Some of the new made lots may not be quite so great.
Posted By: gold40 Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/11/21 04:03 PM
I have been pleased with 5744 reloads using cast bullets for velocities under 2,000 f.p.s. One does need to be careful not to 'double-charge" a case.

I have never used it to reload shot shells.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/12/21 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by gold40
I have never used it to reload shot shells.

AA5744 is not a shotgun powder.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/12/21 02:16 AM
After a further search to see if any shotgun loads have been developed for AA5744, none are found.

It shows a burn rate just slower than IMR 4227, the slowest powder commonly used in shotshells (410). It could possibly have loads developed for it by a ballistics lab for that application, but no such loads are evident in the publications.

AA/Hodgdon also state AA5744 is 'an extremely fast burning double based powder' which is untrue unless qualified buy the term 'extruded'. It is a fast stick powder, but slow compared with EVERY powder used in shot shells.

This article in Gun Digest buys into the low density claim:

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloading/accurate-5744-powder-versatility-in-a-bottle

To quote the article:

"The size of the extruded grains of Accurate 5744 are significantly larger than those of most other extruded powders, and that additional bulk takes up enough room in the big cases so that no filler is required."

AA/Hodgdon DO recommend against fillers, but the statement about additional bulk is simply false.

Makes one wonder how or why Gun Digest wrote this. It's certainly not the result any independent work on their part, they are just parroting incorrect information from the powder manufacturer.
Posted By: waterman Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/12/21 02:24 AM
Most of the problems appear to be associated with bottlenecked cases. Seems to be OK in mild loads in straight or tapered cases.
Posted By: Craigster Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/12/21 03:01 AM
Have used it in 308, 30-06, and a couple of other bottlenecks. No issues.
Posted By: fuhrmann Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/12/21 04:46 AM
Is it possible that the properties of AA 5744 have changed over time?
I have read somewhere (sorry, I do not have the details ready) that the AA powders originally where imported from Czech Republic.
At some time (sorry, donĀ“t know when) Accurate stopped that and sourced their powders elsewhere.
Since then, the company Explosia in Pardubice, Czech Republic is selling their powders under their own Lovex brand.
Lovex DO60 is said to be the same as the AA 5744 originally produced by Explosia.
Any comments?
fuhrmann
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/12/21 01:50 PM
The current version is, according to AA/Hodgdon, made in Canada.

What I've quoted from them is current on their website.
Posted By: xausa Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/18/21 08:37 PM
iI have always been very leery of reduced loads since one resulted in the only serious accident I have ever had reloading. That was in the spring of 1960 and I was due to report to officers' training at Marine Corps Schools, Quantico immediately after graduation. I was used to shooting varmint rifles and had never shot anything as powerful as a .30-'06, so I decided to accustom myself to the recoil using cast bullets and fast burning powder. The phone rang while I was in the midst of charging a loading block full of primed cases and somehow, when I returned from answering the call, I managed to get a double load into five cases and no powder at all into five other ones. I survived, and so did the rifle, albeit with increased headspace. Since then, I have always used a flashlight to check each case to reassure myself that there was a correct load in every case. (I qualified as "Expert" with the M1 rifle that summer.)

I have been using AA 5744 for a number of years and carefully following the instructions from the manufacturer about reduced loads: I fill the case up with powder to the base of the bullet, then weigh the powder, multiply the weight by .4 and use the result as my reduced load. I have never had even the slightest problem. I use the loads primarily to practice rapid fire standing, unsupported, which was a useful position more than once in Africa. Since I now have to shoot left handed, due to a problem with my right eye, I'm teaching a new set of muscles how to behave.

Once, while hunting on a private ranch in Kenya, we came upon a pack of Cape hunting dogs which had just killed an impala inside the six foot game fence which surrounded the property. My PH, who was also the ranch manager's brother in law, asked me if I minded shooting a few and I complied with his request. The upshot was, I emptied my Model 70 Winchester and killed four with five shots. Only one of the shots was not a running shot. This was in the fall of 1971, when hunting was still legal in Kenya.
Posted By: Chukarman Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/23/21 03:10 AM
I load 5744 in reduced charges in my Mauser .404 Jeffery with gas checked cast lead bullets.
Posted By: gold40 Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/24/21 09:58 PM
I have had good results using #5744 for medium powered 30-06 and .308W loads with gas-checked cast lead bullets. Large pistol primers seem to produce better accuracy.

As mentioned earlier, take care not to 'double-charge' these rifle cartridges.
Posted By: Chukarman Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/26/21 04:39 PM
I hate to read this. I recently loaded minimum loads of 5744 with 400 grain cast bullets for practice rounds in my .404 Jeffery. I have almost 2 lbs. on had to practice loads in my .404 and my .375 H&H. These are a GM DSB '98 Mauser (new) and Win M70 (also new). Should I be greatly alarmed or is this a tempest in a tea cup?
Posted By: HalfaDouble Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/26/21 07:48 PM
C Man, https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloading/accurate-5744-powder-versatility-in-a-bottle
Posted By: keith Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/26/21 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Chukarman
I hate to read this. I recently loaded minimum loads of 5744 with 400 grain cast bullets for practice rounds in my .404 Jeffery. I have almost 2 lbs. on had to practice loads in my .404 and my .375 H&H. These are a GM DSB '98 Mauser (new) and Win M70 (also new). Should I be greatly alarmed or is this a tempest in a tea cup?

You should be greatly alarmed... if you are prone to being careless during reloading, and likely to double charge your cases. Otherwise, it appears that approved and tested 5744 loads are quite safe. In today's environment of lawsuits for every little thing, it seems very unlikely that published data for 5744 loads would even be printed if it was questionable.

There are many very safe loads for many cartridges that utilize powders that could easily be double-charged, or even quadruple-charged for that matter. Think of the hundreds of millions of 148 gr. target loads in .38 Special that used around 2.8 grs. of Unique for example. The capacity of a .38 Special case is 23.4 grs. of water. The lesson here is to be extra careful with any load that can be double-charged. The advice to avoid distractions while reloading, and to visually check every charged case before bullet seating is vitally important. When the forensic analysis of a firearm blow-up points to a probable double charge, the guy who made the mistake seldom wishes to admit he simply screwed up. The blame is then frequently placed upon the powder, the components, or the heat-treatment of the firearm.
Posted By: Der Ami Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 08/27/21 12:30 PM
Everyone uses their own procedures to avoid double charging. I place uncharged cases upside down in the loading block. When charged, I turn them "right side up" and place them in another block or a different section of the same block( depending on qty.). If something feels " hinky", I visually check with a led light. We are always responsible for the ammo we load.
Mike
Posted By: Chukarman Re: A fact about AA 5744 - 09/01/21 02:04 AM

Thanks. I have loads ready for shooting...
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